Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

All right, so because I live here in southern Quebec where it's a lot colder and the nights get real cool even in early September and late May, so for my giant pumpkins that's not very long. And also I've got crazy weed pressure here, so my idea was to just cover the entire thing with black landscaping fabric, and then just to cut holes in it when I bury the vines, because that warms the soil and keeps weeds under control. And then late season when the nights get cool, then the warm soil radiates, like the warmth from the soil radiates up and should keep the plants a lot warmer, keeping my giant pumpkins warm. And I'll put this on like end of April, like when I start my seeds, so the soil is nice and warm when I plant the pumpkins. And second of all, I single out, what's the biggest limiting factor for hitting a 3,000 pounder? And what kept me recurring more splits, and that like with some pumpkins like, I'm gonna give the example of the 2020 Payton pumpkin, it has crazy early growth, like the, it grew 25 towards a pumpkin that was over 1,500 pounds a day 40. But then the growth just crashed late season. So that's a downside with a lot of the seeds that grow really fast. Then what you want, and then also what I was looking at this year was there are two pumpkins, like there are a bunch of pumpkins, and there are a few that are like growing really fast, and there's some that started off slow but are currently finishing very strong. So we are going to see which is bigger, the ones that grew really fast in the beginning or the ones that grew slower in the beginning. When I say really fast, I mean like over 60 pounds a day. When I say slower, I mean around 50 or less pounds a day. So we'll see, because if it is true, my theory that if it grows slower earlier, it sustains weight longer, then maybe that's the new key for growing a 3,000 pound pumpkin. You'd want a genetic seed line that does that.

8/14/2026 4:08:52 PM

Grittyville, WA

You do have a lot of weed pressure. Check out Don Crews diary... I don't know about black weed fabric, it might keep the soil cold even... I have found for the purpose of solarizing that it actually blocks the infrared and really you want to let the infrared (heat) through. Clear plastic works better than black for solarizing, but I guess black is what would control the weeds. Maybe that is why growers use the clear green stuff.... it blocks the red and blue light but lets the heat through?

Seems to me the growers who use clear plastic soil covers (maybe colored, but clear as far as heat goes) do well.

8/15/2026 12:12:13 AM

Grittyville, WA

As for growth rates and hitting 3k, I don't think there is a immutable tradeoff between initial speed and final result. Someone will get the best of both worlds and knock it out of the park. 3500 is possible. The limiting factor in reaching 3k is how much we can learn, and how fast we can learn it. My opinion.

8/15/2026 12:17:12 AM

C N Y

I do think that as the season progresses, grower goals change as each of perhaps their several pumpkins splits, aborts or slows or stops in growth. You've heard of 'pumpkin slowdown' and I as of yet disagree that it has to be that *weigh, lol. I have over 21 plants growing, small-scale and they seem to wanna live forever this year. So cool. My fruits are not even 'that big' by MY standards, lol, butt I did blow up the first one on my 2003 Haist and 3 of 4 squash are now defunct via aborts upon basketball size - butt I am awaiting polls on each of all and the 2003 now has a second chance. SO exciting! The 4th Squash is a real 'babe', lol. If it didn't matter about getting ONE to a weighoff, growers would/might do as I wish I could do but don't due to cost, and that's ADD fertilizer and water rather than 'back off' on it in the effort to not risk perhaps the final one. eg

[Last edit: 08/15/26 1:32:35 AM]

8/15/2026 1:25:50 AM

Europe , slovenia

You really just need it to be fast and steady and prayers it holds

[Last edit: 08/16/26 4:24:23 AM]

8/15/2026 6:16:02 AM

Don Crews

Lloydminster/AB

My favourite is an IRT film. Infrared transmission. Lets ir through to warm the soil, won't let photosynthetic light through so weeds are stunted. 5-10 degree Celsius soil temp increase. You can buy it in Canada in small quantities from William Dam seeds and a few others. Works inside, outside a little tricky.

8/16/2026 2:36:51 AM

Country Boy

Have you tried infrared plastic to heat the soil in spring for giant pumpkins? I wonder if that would work in place of heating cables inside a greenhouse?

8/16/2026 3:00:35 AM

Don Crews

Lloydminster/AB

It works very well in my greenhouse when I can install it in the fall before the soil is frozen. Soil cables are still required to get a plant in the ground early April. By the time the plant is vining, soil outside the vicinity is warm enough to support root growth.

8/16/2026 10:14:27 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

For the 3000 idea I just wanted t9 say that the patons’ would have made it 8n ‘22 if it hadn’t split at dap 88 a5 2907 so defenetly possible

8/16/2026 9:55:16 PM

Europe , slovenia

it would have made 3000 lbs but that fruit was not steady it grew fast and kept up the gains until it Split so it must be fast and steady not just steady.

As growth starts to slowly decline after dap 50 it needs very strong growing during dap 20-30 and to keep up the later gains to prevent dropping fast.

[Last edit: 08/17/26 9:13:17 AM]

8/17/2026 9:01:56 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Well look at IanP’s diary and see a pumpkin wit( a peak of 52 per day still growing 30 a day a5 dap 70 at 2251 pounds I’d say that one will end up at like 2850-2950lbs

[Last edit: 08/17/26 9:17:10 PM]

8/17/2026 5:51:58 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

You said that it needs fast growth 20-40 but I thin’ its 5he opposite for instance two pumpkins off the same seed (2641) are currently growing one was 1300+ a5 dap 40 the other 1150 and right now dap 70 the smaller one is 2251 doing 29 a day the bigger one 2322 doing 19 a day so I think that growth must be slow earlier to be fast later IF you can have 110+ growing days. For more reference look here at the day by day rates of pumpkin #1
Dap WGT PDG
20. 186. 9.3
30. 740. 55.4
40. 1361. 62.1
50. 1822. 46.1
60. 2134. 31.2
70. 2322. 18.8

And pumpkin #2
DAP. WGT. PDG
20. 151. 7.55
30. 634. 48.3
40. 1158. 52.4
50. 1599. 45.7
60. 1964. 36.5
70. 2251. 28.7

8/17/2026 9:22:38 PM

Europe , slovenia

Maurice,
you shoud to re-read Ian’s latest diary notes instead of just looking at the daily numbers.
He actually noted: "Bagheera's plant has virtually no fusarium which is probably why slowly but surely she's catching up to Baloo."

The reason Bagheera is catching up isnt the slow start strategy—it's just that Baloo's plant is struggling with Fusarium, which slows down its growth. Since Bagheera has no Fusarium, of course she's going to catch up! You're basically comparing a healthy plant to one that has Fusarium.
Also, if you look at the closest fruit to 3,000 lbs (the Patons' 2,907 lb DMG), it was never a slow grower and kept up its daily gains very well all the way until it split

If you are Reading this now check ians newest entry.

[Last edit: 08/20/26 2:53:46 PM]

8/18/2026 3:38:50 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

The 2907 may have been the closest to 3000 but it split. And also if you’re saying about bagheera having no fusarium as a reason for why it’s winning the fight it is very possible that that is why to a certain degree but baloo’s plant lost some vines it’s true that may put it from 1200 sqft to 1000 but 700 sqft plants that are left to grow wild can produce 3500 pounds of pumpkin. Lastly I want to say that last year’s 2819 was 2198 at day 70 and it had a faster peak growth than bagheera and bagheera is now 2251 doing 29 a day. Both plants had no fusarium

8/20/2026 6:32:42 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

One more thing is the 2907 had a 20 lb day faster peak than bagheera and at day 70 bagheera had a 10 lb day growth rate faster than the 2907

8/20/2026 6:34:13 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

This is the peak to day 70 daily gains of these pumpkins:
2907: 71 - 20.4
2819: 54 - 25
Bagheera: 52 - 29

[Last edit: 08/20/26 9:02:42 PM]

8/20/2026 9:02:11 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

One more thing I want t9 add to the 2907 is that that ki d of growth may lead to 3000-3100lbs but you’d need like 10 of them all growing that speed to get on3 to the scales. It is already insane that th3 2907 made it to day 88 unlike it’s slightly slower cousin at 1350 a5 day 40 which split shortly after

[Last edit: 08/20/26 9:07:24 PM]

8/20/2026 9:05:17 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Oh yeah… the 2641 seems to be split resistant because of its low peak high late gain thing. Since I’m only noticing this slow earlier-fast later thing on the 2641 i5 is possible it’s just a 2641 thing

8/20/2026 9:07:04 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Here is my day 80-130 protection for bagheera
70–80: ~21/day
* 80–90: ~17/day
* 90–100: ~12/day
* 100–110: ~9.8/day
* 110–120: ~6/day
* 120–130: ~4.15/day

And BALOO
70–80: ~12/day
* 80–90: ~10/day
* 90–100: ~6.5/day
* 100–110: ~4/day
* 110–120: ~2.5/day
* 120–130: ~1.5/day

[Last edit: 08/20/26 9:21:07 PM]

8/20/2026 9:15:16 PM

Grittyville, WA

The Patons take 10 day measurements then average them to get the daily gain?

Can this data be visualized in graph?

I think a graph might show there is an inherited component to the weight gain distribution. But there are so many other factors... the shape of the pumpkin, the weather, disease pressure in the patch.

So its a lot more than just numbers. But if you can look at enough numbers and really see a pattern then maybe the numbers are indeed saying something.

Maybe you are good with numbers so you can see something I cant. I would have to look at the data visually and there would have to be a lot of data to get past all the noise. In math or statistics there would be a "best fit" graph and there would be an attempt to get rid of outliers and establish a standard deviation?

If you're inclined towards statistics or math this would be a good project to keep working on.

There is of course very capable AI software that can sort through a huge amount of amorphous data (it probably could lift all the data out of bigpumpkins.com) and given the right prompt it might be able to tell you if there are any noteworthy patterns in that data.

8/20/2026 9:59:19 PM

Europe , slovenia

I think the 2907 vs 2819 comparison actually shows why fast early growth is important.
The 2907 was already 2607 lbs at DAP 70,
while the 2819 was only 2193.
That 414 lb advantage came from the 2907's much faster growth earlier in the season.

Yes, the 2819 was gaining 25 lb/day at DAP 70 compared to 20.4 for the 2907, but that wasn't enough to catch up. The 2907 had already built such a huge lead that even with the 2819 having better late gains, it still finished 88 lbs lighter.

The biggest thing to me is that the 2907 split at DAP 88 and still finished at 2907 lbs when lifted (september 10), while the 2819 had 130 days to grow and still only reached 2819. So the 2907 reached a heavier weight in 30 fewer growing days so the 2907 would have crushed every other pumpkin if she had 130 days even with way lower gains plus her gains slowed due to her starting to rot after splitting 12 days before being lifted (2907 was dap 100 when lifted)

The Bagheera comparison doesn't really prove the theory either. Bagheera peaked at 52 lb/day and is doing around 29/day at DAP 70, while the 2907 peaked at 71/day and was doing 20.4/day at DAP 70. But the 2907 was already 2607 lbs at DAP 70. Bagheera is only 2251. So Bagheera's better DAP 70 gain doesn't mean she's on track to beat the 2907. She has to make up that 356 lbs first then another 300 lbs to Match the 2907 weight

And Baloo vs Bagheera has an obvious confounding factor. Baloo has been hit hard by Fusarium and has lost vines, so his plant is smaller now. Fusarium can also interfere with the plant's vascular system and water transport, which can slow fruit growth. So I don't think you can use Baloo's slower gains as evidence

And pumpkins with slower gains are not split resistant that just depends on shape and watering.

On the other hand bagheera being in front of the 2819 seems promising but you never know maybe since her gains are higher right now they will plummet after dap 90 maybe she will split..

[Last edit: 08/21/26 9:45:33 AM]

8/21/2026 4:28:50 AM

Grittyville, WA

The 2907 is probably the obvious choice for hitting 3k because it was one of the few that has ever hit the 70 lbs per day needed to be on track for 3k... I'm guessing the 10 day average needs to be around 60+ lbs to hit 3k. And a single day of hitting 70 would be helpful to the tragectory.

That being said a pumpkin doing 50 lbs per day could hit 3,000 but the math is less favorable it would need a long growth period and then to go heavy to chart.

8/21/2026 10:31:02 AM

Grittyville, WA

A lot of growers want to hit 3k, but also a lot of growers just want to win their local event with a pumpkin that is solid and slightly bigger than the competition.

8/21/2026 10:33:50 AM

Grittyville, WA

I think there is a lot of appeal to growers to plant the seeds that might not hit 3k but that do seem likely to grow heavy enough to beat the competition. The 2907 genetics might be the ones to use to hit 3k but for winning competitions other seeds may be more stellar? And for hitting 3k growers could get lucky using other genetics also? Does that sum it up correctly?

We might see 3k this year! Then you'll have a definitive answer.

[Last edit: 08/21/26 10:44:24 AM]

8/21/2026 10:40:37 AM

Europe , slovenia

Good info

[Last edit: 08/21/26 11:33:12 AM]

8/21/2026 10:50:15 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Sure if you compare the 2907 to the 2819 it looks way better but that way but see it split at day 88 the 2641s do slower early and hold late thereby less splits as most happen when the pumpkin does 60+ lbs/day. If you want 3000 the safer bet would be get a seed line likebagheera that could finish just over 3000 rated than be like thrr ed 2907 that could hit 3100 but splits are way more likely

8/22/2026 12:51:03 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Also getting one lik the 2907 is so unlikely as that was the extreme outlier

8/22/2026 12:52:10 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

I bet that somewhere in the batch of 2641 there’s a seed that could peak at like 65 a day and still do 30 a day at 70 and finish larger than the 2907 because it peaked just slightly lower

8/22/2026 12:53:42 PM

Don Crews

Lloydminster/AB

To hit 3000 you need to maximize growth the whole fruit cycle. This starts when the fruit is forming on the vine. It doesn't take much reading to figure out that big fruit start off that way. We as a collective group have a long way to go to do that. One day 1000 lbs at day 30 will be the benchmark.

8/22/2026 1:13:55 PM

Grittyville, WA

Unless its on a scale we don't know what they are really gaining per day. Could be more or less than what the measurements are saying. But we do know within a margin of about plus or minus 20%. The bullfertilizer stops when the tailgate drops... or better yet when its on the scale.

8/22/2026 1:44:16 PM

Europe , slovenia

Slower growth usually doesent prevent it splitting its mostly shape and watering.the 2907 did split but it did not split during its biggest expansion and its split was due to it being so thin it just cracked

8/22/2026 4:14:24 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Then if it starts split because it was so thin the thinness could have been because of fast growth and if it was so thin maybe it wasn’t doing the 70 per day the measurements showed

8/23/2026 12:15:39 PM

Europe , slovenia

Its because the 1885 werner did not produce thick pumpkins plus feeding and every pumpkins weak point is the blossom end. Plus the 2641 is not split resistant theres no such thing as split resistant lines there may be no danaged fruits as only around 9 have been grown but it all comes down to shape, watering

[Last edit: 08/23/26 4:13:19 PM]

8/23/2026 3:55:58 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Then maybe the 2641 has good shape. And I think it is the fast growth that causes splits. Why else do they always split dap 30-50

8/23/2026 9:32:30 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

But next year I’ll try growing both the 2641 and the 2020 because th3 2020 is a classic fast early one. last thing is that giving the example of last years 2819 vs 2462 the 2462 (2020 seed) was always faster but late season the 2819 (2641) grew faster than the 2462 abd finished almost 400 lbs heavier

8/23/2026 9:35:17 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Lastly I want to say that the likely ideal growth curve for 3000 wouldn’t be 45-50 peak or it’ll never get there nor 70 peak or it’ll either split or crash late season, but one that has a peak of 55-65 a day and holds on to be ~2350 at day 70 and 3000 at day 130 like maybe BALOO (2641) if there was no fusarium

8/23/2026 9:43:25 PM

Europe , slovenia

Shape is not genetics but its lobes and fruit positioning
And 2462 was faster but not by much dap 30 it was 30 lbs ahead and the max it was ahead on dap 50 was 85 lbs the 2020 peaked at around 57 lbs only 5 lbs more than the 2641 52 lbs per day

8/24/2026 2:36:04 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Yes but it still peaked 80 lbs above and finished 400 lbs below that goes to show something

8/24/2026 3:24:36 PM

C N Y

Honestly, I'm seeing a lot of good thoughts here; The only weigh to support these arguments IMHO is to grow about 10-40 of each seed in exacting conditions on scales (Thank you, Little Ketchup) and thereby determine a general growth curve for each seed in question and go from that as a template of sorts for them. By then, though, an even-newer seed will be rattling the cage to be proven further, lol.

The Tale of the Scale.

eg

8/24/2026 5:27:34 PM

Europe , slovenia

True. Comparing just two seeds isn't very practical anyway—there are way too many variables in a single season. Some plants foliage can get tired earlier in the year some hold better and every seed is diffriend from eachother after Forming in the fruit.

[Last edit: 08/24/26 6:08:38 PM]

8/24/2026 6:02:54 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

If 8 had more than 1500 ft2 of space I’d do it

8/24/2026 6:10:03 PM

C N Y

Just think, Maurice, with the results of the info you two are hitting on, you could go BY that info for the seed(s) to more-reliably excel with - just like a track record, butt moreso regarding the interim. eg

8/24/2026 6:39:43 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Okay now my next comparison of fast early- slow later vs medium medium pumpkin #1 peaked at 70 a day for 5 days between dap 30-35 and had a dap 40 size of 1350 lbs to finish at 2641.1. Meanwhile pumpkin #2 peaked at 54 pounds a day day 30-40, was 1150 at day 40 to finish a5 2819.3 lbs

8/24/2026 9:28:12 PM

Europe , slovenia

I dont think the 2020 that grew the 2641 ever peaked at 70.... And as i said even if grown in a greenhouse every plant is diffriend even if we compare the same seed no seed has a built in system that tells the foliage to start dying and getting tired after some time....
No seed is the same lets look at the 1885 that grew the 2907 well some growers grew it and DID NOT get 70 lbs a day! That was a super seed as ian grew it and had simmilar results as a clone also grew very simmilarly before splitting.

(Edit: i checked and the 2020 was 1204 lbs at that age)

[Last edit: 08/25/26 5:08:48 AM]

8/25/2026 4:59:51 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Well that was an extreme outlier and the 2020 that grew the 2641 DID peak at 70 a day dap 30-35 it shows it in Ian’s 2024 diary.

8/25/2026 12:32:31 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Than maybe if it was 1204 at day 40 it was still ahead of the 2819 but finished behind. And now bagheera is tracking right along with tge 2819. Slow start-strong finish.

8/25/2026 12:34:47 PM

Europe , slovenia

By your own logic on the 2462 (that being ahead early doesn't mean it stays ahead), Bagheera being in front of the 2819 right now doesn't prove she'll finish ahead either :)

Edit : read the 2641 vs 2020 again and it seems they were accualy neck to neck up to until dap 100 thats when ian said theres something going on with the 2020s plumbing which slowed its growth ;))

[Last edit: 08/25/26 3:35:04 PM]

8/25/2026 3:19:20 PM

Smallmouth

Upa Creek, MO

Don Crews is 100% correct... have to grow fast from A to Z

8/25/2026 5:56:31 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

He THOUGHT there was something wrong with its plumbing but maybe it was just slowin* down naturally

8/25/2026 9:56:48 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Like u said earlier I think the biggest pumpkin would be not 45-50 pounds a day or it’ll never get massive. But not 70-80 a day either or it’ll end up splitting going light or crashing late season so I think the best pumpkin would be like BALOO but no fusarium with peak of 60-65 a day and held nice and long

8/25/2026 9:58:49 PM

Europe , slovenia

He never mentioned the slowing growth to be natural after his message.
And 65 lbs is pretty good but 70,80 is what you would need if chasing 3000 lbs as ive mentioned the 2907 had a huge lead from its gains you need a fruit to keep growing fast from start to finish and the amount it gains per day does not contribute to splits as i said a pumpkin can split at any time even fruit younger than 20 days can Split. And the 2749 was gaining around 68 lbs per day and it still went 10 percent to chart :). Most growers also do not have 130 growing days so slow and steady will not bring them into the 2500 plus

I have to agree with Don too you need the best of both worlds as thats what ive been saying the entire time but im here to keep this thread alive ;)

[Last edit: 08/26/26 6:49:35 AM]

8/26/2026 2:55:56 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

If you’re chasing 3000 70-80 will very likely split it as the only 70+ a day pumpkins I know (1761 cotterman, 2222 ginger, 2907 Paton, etc) all split whereas pumpkins that were close but not quite that fast (2749, 2449, 2692, 2819 etc) did not as fast growth DOES make the pumpkin split more likely. Also the 2907 was an extreme outlier usually pumpkins going that fast slow down earlier (2641 2462 etc) there are always exceptions so u still believe that the best bet for 3000 peaked at 62-68 and holds late and finishes 2950-3100

8/26/2026 3:16:15 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Of course in ten years or so the WR will likely be 3500 and then my ideal 65 a day will become maybe 80 a day because the pumpkins need to grow faster to reach the splitting point

8/26/2026 3:19:31 PM

Europe , slovenia

As far as I know, the 2907 split when it was doing around 9 lb/day, while the 2222 split when it was still doing around 43 lb/day. So the splits were NOT caused by the 70+ lb/day growth itself, but by other factors or late season stress. Also, if you think 80 lb/day could eventually become ideal as pumpkins get larger, wouldn't this be against your point of fast growth causing splits? I mean i dont think the fruit will get more elastic..I think it might be more about how the fruit handles that growth.

[Last edit: 08/26/26 3:48:57 PM]

8/26/2026 3:43:56 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

I think that in 10 generations to come the cells will expand faster then now thereby allowing for faster growth and you said the 2222 and 2907 splits were not caused by fast growth but I think that the fast growth although did not kill them immediately caused for thin walls thereby resulting in splits. Whereas the pumpkins like the 1761, 1502, 2009 etc all split during the day 30-50 window when they were doing 70 a day

8/26/2026 4:02:35 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

And if I make a quick calculation for my ideal growth it would be day 20 180 pounds day 30 730 pounds day 40 1390 pounds day 50 1870 pounds day 60 2250 pounds day 70 2520 pounds day 80 2700 pounds day 90 2830 pounds day 100 2920 pounds day 110 2990 pounds day 120 3040 pounds

8/26/2026 4:07:38 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

This has a peak of 66 pounds a day

8/26/2026 4:08:09 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Probably similar to what baloo would have been without fusarium

8/26/2026 4:08:55 PM

Howard

Nova Scotia

Hey folks just have to say this whole 3,000 lb. pumpkin will be here soon...maybe even this year? Subject come up few years ago. I had an interview with some Smithsonian paper or magazine regarding this. Yes it will just all the elements have to click perfectly shall I say? But I ended it size of pumpkin not the issue now...just thickness percent over the chart! Preferably a nice orange one! Genetics if I knew or anyone else lucky them! All fun

8/26/2026 4:31:13 PM

Europe , slovenia

I agree Howard, being able to finish heavy to chart is really important, especially when chasing 3000 :)

The split argument still has some holes though.
The 2749 was only about 2 lb/day below the 2907 in peak growth, yet it stayed intact and finished 10% heavy to chart. The 2907 did split later, but Stuart mentioned that the 1885 Werner tends to produce very large but thinner fruit, so wall structure could have played a role as it got huge. The 2222 also ended with a rib split, which makes shape and fruit structure worth considering. The 2819 went light to chart despite its lower 54 lb/day peak, so lower growth clearly doesn't guarantee a better thickness. To me, the evidence points more toward genetics, shape, wall structure, plant health, and how the fruit handles growth rather than 70 lb/day itself causing splits.
You do not need super high steady growth later on if you have heavy genetics those can already make a fruit way heavier ;)))

8/26/2026 5:02:36 PM

Howard

Nova Scotia

I hear you Matic right on!

8/26/2026 5:11:51 PM

Howard

Nova Scotia

Don't grow in a greenhouse but always wondered if the conditions in a greenhouse suck evaporate weight from a pumpkin?

8/26/2026 5:14:31 PM

Europe , slovenia

You could be on to something :0. Ive always seen most of ians and struarts fruit go light :(

8/26/2026 6:29:58 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

True I think that’s the reason. And also travis’ 2749 peaked at 68 a day for a brief period whereas the 2907 held 70 a day for 10 days. And lastly thin walls doesn’t necessarily mean it goes light cause it could be denser. Maybe the greenhouse thing is right or it’s just that the6 griw s9 fast

8/26/2026 9:21:49 PM

Europe , slovenia

Also, the genetics make the comparison worth considering:

2907: 1885 Werner, big but thinner fruit
2749: 2365 Wolf, big and thick fruit

They both produced huge fruit, but their fruit structure was different. So the 2907 splitting while the 2749 stayed intact could have something to do with genetics and wall structure, not simply how fast they were growing. That makes it difficult to say that holding 70 lbs is what caused it and 70 lbs is a 10 day average so it was NOT doing 70 every day one day maybe 68 one day 72 and also your point about fast growth is proven wrong with the 2819 growing under 70 lbs a day and still finishing light

[Last edit: 08/27/26 1:40:37 PM]

8/27/2026 3:05:50 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

The 2365 splits more than the 2641 though. Just look, in the last years the patons grew a bunch (4+) of 2365s and 2641s of the 2641s one split of the 2365s all were DMG

8/27/2026 4:54:47 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

And just one exception for my theory (2819 finishing light) if the greenhouse thing is correct than that explains it. So now using an example from non greenhouse fruit the 1761 cotterman was doing 72 a day and went light whereas the 2731 stelts (slow & steady) was heavy like 18 percent

8/27/2026 4:58:47 PM

Europe , slovenia

2365 vs 2641 isn't solid evidence — 102 grows with 12 damaged vs 7 grows with 0 splits, too small a sample to compare fairly.
Same with 1761 vs 2731 — different genetics, so final chart % doesn't prove growth rate caused the difference. Where did the growth data showing 2731 was "slow and steady" come from? It's from 2144 Barron, so genetics could explain the result on its own.
Also worth noting: 2819 (steady grower) finishing light was attributed to the greenhouse, but 1761 (fast grower) finishing light was counted as evidence for the theory. Results that fit get kept, results that don't get an explanation. What result would count as evidence against the theory?
2907/2749 wall thickness also works against it — if wall structure explains why one split and the other didn't, that's another variable on top of sample size and genetics, making growth rate alone harder to credit.

[Last edit: 08/28/26 2:54:47 AM]

8/28/2026 2:42:28 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Well just say you have I giant that grows to 100 pounds the likely hood of a BES is extremely low whereas if you have one doing 90 pounds of a day it’s almost certainly going to split

8/28/2026 10:29:58 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

And if the 2907 avreages 70 a day for 10 days it may have peaked for a couple of days at 75 or more whereas the 2749 was just brief 68 a day

8/28/2026 10:31:56 AM

Europe , slovenia

It doesn't make sense to attribute the 2907 going light to its 70 lb/day growth, while attributing the 2819 going light to greenhouse conditions. The same standard has to be applied to both pumpkins.

You also said a pumpkin doing 90 lb/day is "almost certainly" going to split. Where is the data supporting that? Without actual examples and split rates of pumpkin growing 90 lbs per day you are just making guesses.

You said the 2907 may have peaked at 75+ because its 10 day average was 70. An average cannot establish the peak without daily measurements.

You also claimed Travis Gienger's 2749 briefly peaked at 68 lb/day, but Travis never stated that. Where did that "brief" come from?

Finally, you cannot claim fast growth causes thin walls while ignoring genetics. Different genetics can produce different fruit structure no structure is identical.

The examples do not prove that growth rate caused the results.

[Last edit: 08/28/26 5:02:01 PM]

8/28/2026 5:00:01 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Sure diffrent genes produce different shapes and thereby light;heavy but that’s because of the growth like s9me genes griw slow steady (2365, 2144, etc) but go heavy whereas some (1885, 2907, etc) go super fast early but finish light. Of course there are many factors but I believe this to be ine

8/28/2026 9:53:03 PM

Europe , slovenia

But how do we know the fast growth is what caused the thinner walls? Genetics could affect both the growth curve and the fruit's structure, so a fast-growing pumpkin with thin walls doesn't prove one caused the other. And the greenhouse explanation for the 2819 isn't confirmed either. If the 2819 grew slower in the same type of conditions and still finished light, we can't rule out those conditions affecting the 2907 too, so I don't think its light finish can be pinned on 70 lb/day alone :(

Edit: Also, 2365 and 2144 don't exactly support the slow-growth argument either. They can grow very aggressively and still finish extremely heavy (2749,2731) so fast growth clearly doesn't automatically mean it will go light. And with the 1885 Werner, I think it's worth looking at its actual track record too. It has rarely produced a heavy-to-chart pumpkin, so there may be more to its typical finish than simply how fast it grows early.

[Last edit: 08/29/26 8:31:24 AM]

8/29/2026 3:23:41 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

The 3749 only briefly peaked at 68 and that’s okay it’s only in my opinion when it goes over 70 for 5+ days that it splits, crashes late season, or becomes more likely to go light

8/29/2026 9:58:02 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

65-70 is okay briefly but continues 60-66 is better

[Last edit: 08/29/26 9:59:20 AM]

8/29/2026 9:59:04 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Dkless than 58 and it’s too slow, over 70 even briefly and it’s too fast

8/29/2026 10:00:01 AM

Europe , slovenia

I'd personally like to see where the 2749 actually hit 68 lb/day briefly because I haven't seen Travis say that anywhere.

Also, the wall structure is developing from very early in the fruit's life, when it's tiny. So if genetics affect both the growth curve and how the fruit builds its walls, you can't just look at a later 70 lb/day average and say that's what caused the thin walls or split.

And the 2907's 70 lb/day was a 10 day average. That doesn't tell us it peaked at 75+ like you said. It could have been 68 one day, 72 another, 70 another, etc. We simply don't know without the daily data.

Otherwise we're picking a number and explaining every pumpkin that doesn't fit the theory with another factor. I don't think that's enough to say 70 is too fast.

I'm not saying growth rate doesn't matter. I'm saying you haven't shown any clear or strong proof that 70 lb/day itself is what causes splitting or a light finish. That hasn't been confirmed.

8/29/2026 10:41:29 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

sure it hasnt been confirmed but i have a bunch of pumpkins showing what i have said so although not proven it could well be true as its not some little theory with nothing backing it

[Last edit: 08/29/26 1:06:38 PM]

8/29/2026 1:03:20 PM

Europe , slovenia

I agree it's an interesting theory and there are examples worth looking at, but I don't think you can really say it's strongly supported when a lot of the examples have other variables that could explain the outcome. And I still haven't seen any actual evidence for the claim that the 2749 hit 68 lb/day "briefly". I'd personally like to see that data before counting it as evidence.

8/29/2026 1:57:02 PM

Porkchop

Central NY

Have either of you heard the joke about the two blondes arguing in the woods?...."those are deer tracks...Those are bear tracks...those are DeER tracks!!....THOse are BEaR TRaCKs!!!!!!!....ThoSE ARE DeER TRaCKS!!!!!!!......they both got hit by a train.

8/29/2026 4:34:35 PM

Europe , slovenia

lol fair enough, I just enyoy discussing things like this

[Last edit: 08/29/26 5:03:48 PM]

8/29/2026 4:59:15 PM

Porkchop

Central NY

I'm just teasing lol

8/29/2026 6:34:31 PM

Europe , slovenia

It was was a good joke lol im just not really used to expressing laughter in text form ;)

8/29/2026 7:26:35 PM

C N Y

Okay, so, with a growth-curve sampling from select pumpkins grown on scales, exclusively, a plethora of growers could theoretically grow a seed or 20+ of them cumulatively and derive from their scales' data a semi-predictable/applicable regimen for the ongoing fertilizing, pollination date and watering/everything-else schedule, thereby enabling a targeted approach to growing that/those seed/seeds with evermore certainty of substantial weigh gains and increasing end weights. I always consider the track record of any seeds I grow from other growers based upon the final weights and color, etc., in the available data on PumpkinFanatic.com and on BP.c. Sure, no 1,000+-pounder yet, but that's on ME, lol. With that more-assuring data, though, as y'all are uncovering, 3,000# is looming closer. My nickel's worth. eric g
>>>Something like this below, with a graph included for selected seeds, which, IMHO, 'should' be mostly the 'Top 10 Biggest Pumpkins'>>>--->the SEEDS that have ever produced those (and) WRs:
https://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=355384

[Last edit: 08/30/26 12:54:20 AM]

8/30/2026 12:39:16 AM

C N Y

If a 120-day growth period is available:
0 DAP to 30 DAP = +300# - Very likely;
90 DAP to 120 DAP = +300# - 'Just wanna get one to a weighoff', lol;
So, for 3000#, for 60 days, the daily gain would have to be 40#+.
Purely conjecture and just burning calories, lol.
It can be done. Movie time!
eric g

8/30/2026 1:10:09 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Well a pumpkin could easily be 600 at day 30 and put on 300 pounds days 90-120 so that means that it must average 35 a day

8/30/2026 11:02:02 AM

Smallmouth

Upa Creek, MO

Maurice, where did you get "And also travis’ 2749 peaked at 68 a day for a brief period"?

8/30/2026 7:49:21 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

In one article on the 2749

8/30/2026 9:50:44 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

In one article on the 2749 if I knew the name I would tell yo7 bu5 8 forgot

8/30/2026 9:51:10 PM

Europe , slovenia

Well, until we find that article, we'll put that claim in a special category, named Bee S lol :p

[Last edit: 08/30/26 10:39:49 PM]

8/30/2026 10:10:25 PM

C N Y

I've been Googling:
>>>What was the peak pounds per day of the XXXX.x (Top Grower) Atlantic Giant?<<<
and every detail is *different*, so I'll assume that the 'Common Knowledge'
(better than mine, so I DO need this edification anymore, lol!) is readily
available and may be easy to misconstrue versus the details we think we know.
If I were a non-grower and saw that a fruit even CoulD gain 70 pounds a day,
I'd readily believe it and pass it on at a party or in general conversation.
I am NOT saying that anyone is misled by common knowledge nor fabricating.
Also: >>>What was the peak pounds per day of the fastest-growing Atlantic giant?<<<
...Muggle, the 2819.3. This is all kinda neat. Enjoy---eg

[Last edit: 08/31/26 12:15:59 AM]

8/30/2026 11:58:38 PM

Europe , slovenia

Bagheera is an interesting one because she seems to go against your slow-start theory. She started strong and is now at 9 lb/day at DAP 90, well below your 17 lb/day for 80 to 90, 12 for 90 to 100 and even 9.8 for 100 to 110. In my opinion, every pumpkin seems to drop off differently, and I don't think the drop is caused by the main growth rate.

Oh and also i was the first one who brought up the 2749s 68 lbs per day i accualy got 67.5 from travises Facebook but rounded to 68 hoewever he never mentioned it was briefly.

[Last edit: 08/31/26 8:40:47 AM]

8/31/2026 7:50:10 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

But with bagheera Ian specifically stated that it is larger than estimated because it sank in to the soil

8/31/2026 11:16:46 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

I think that the fastest ever growing ag was the 1761 cotterman that averaged 72 a day for 6 days before a BES

8/31/2026 11:17:45 AM

Europe , slovenia

Even if loosing inches for final weight 9 lbs a day at day 90 with ur projected day 90 being 17 a day is unrealistic and it shows that your theory is wrong as bagheera dropped fast and didnt hold even with steady growth after dap 70 so no it will not reach your predicted 2950 lbs

[Last edit: 08/31/26 1:36:23 PM]

8/31/2026 12:22:35 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

I looked at IanPs 2024 diary and the 2639.4 taped 100 lbs more after lifting because of the sinking. If let’s say it’s the same with bagheera that would mean it’s doing 19 a day. Lastly I want to say that a couple years ago someone did a test and saw that during the day 10-30 phase of was 5 percent heavy, during the 30-50 phase it was 5 percent light and during the 90-120 phase it was 5 percent heavy again

8/31/2026 2:21:10 PM

Europe , slovenia

There’s no proof Bagheera is 100 lb heavier due to sinking. But even if she is, that does NOT mean she’s doing 19 lb/day. That 100 lb difference would have accumulated over the life of the pumpkin, not during DAP 80 to 90. You can’t take another pumpkin’s measurement difference and add it to Bagheera’s 10-day gain to make it seem better.

[Last edit: 08/31/26 5:31:08 PM]

8/31/2026 3:12:32 PM

Europe , slovenia

And about that test saying pumpkins are 5% heavy at 90 to 120, if you actually have the data from that test I’d be interested to see it. As for the 1761 and 2907, if their fast growth supposedly caused them to go light, then I’d expect the 1761 to potentially have gone heavy if it had been allowed to finish instead of splitting, and the same question applies to the 2907. We need the actual data before we can really connect the growth rate to the final result.

8/31/2026 3:17:12 PM

Europe , slovenia

Also, do you happen to remember anything about that 2749 article you mentioned? Even the author, site, or roughly when you saw it would help. I’d like to track it down and see where the “peaked briefly at 68” part accualy came from.

[Last edit: 08/31/26 3:22:51 PM]

8/31/2026 3:21:23 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Here was the pumpkin from the 5% heavy test https://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=355384
All I remember from the article is the briefly 68 a day and that it was grown on a tertiary

8/31/2026 6:49:08 PM

Grittyville, WA

I like this idea of looking further into seeds which had a superb trajectory but failed to reach their potential. I think, was it the 1501 Vanderwielen that had a sort of great start but a short time on the vine? Its genetics/progeny included some good pumpkins.

9/1/2026 1:08:31 AM

Europe , slovenia

Ah okay, For the 2749 though, I actually got the 67.5 lb/day figure from Travis’s Facebook and was the one who rounded it to 68 in our conversation. The “briefly” part you brought up afterward, so I’m still curious where that part came from lol. Do you remember anything else about the article???

[Last edit: 09/01/26 1:16:26 AM]

9/1/2026 1:14:53 AM

Europe , slovenia

I’ve seen that test before. If we’re using it as evidence, the 90 to 120 phase being 5% heavy makes it harder to blame the 1761 and 2907 finishing light on fast growth alone. The 2749 having 110+ days could also help explain why it finished heavy.I also mentioned earlier that Bagheera might drop off faster after holding such strong gains up to dap 70 compared to baloo, and that seems to be true as she is 2 lbs above baloo and baloo has fussarium which also grew faster than bagheera and bagheera did go with your theory but is now basically the same thing as baloo

[Last edit: 09/01/26 7:38:18 AM]

9/1/2026 1:19:18 AM

Europe , slovenia

And about the 1501

It seems like an amazing seed its the grandparent of the 2907 but it really didnt have many planted but the ones planted had big orange results

[Last edit: 09/01/26 7:44:51 AM]

9/1/2026 1:26:55 AM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Bagheera seems like baloo NOW but we’re going to see if one goes heavy because that changes the picture. Also for that study thing I still blame fast growth for going light because in the test it never grew as fast as the 2907 so maybe the 2907 was like in peak -15 percent light and could not make it up

9/1/2026 11:47:27 AM

Europe , slovenia

You can’t add assumptions with no proof just to make the theory work. The “15% light” claim is an assumption, just like the 2749 "briefly" hit 68 lb/day claim where’s the proof of that part? You haven’t provided any!). The 2749 was only about 2 lb/day below the 2907 at peak, yet finished around 10% heavy, and it had 110+ days while the 2907 had fewer. That actually gives a much simpler explanation for the difference. You can’t keep adding unproven excuses to make the theory fit better.

9/1/2026 12:22:02 PM

Europe , slovenia

2819 also finished similar to chart to 2907 with slower growth so that also bumps down your theory

[Last edit: 09/01/26 12:48:46 PM]

9/1/2026 12:41:27 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

You’re right there is no proof but it could well be possible also the 68 a day briefly I did see so although I cannot show it I know it’s true. I’m not saying that this theory is 100 percent true, but I definitely think there’s something to it just looking at all the evidence that when a pumpkin grows slower early (55-65 a day) it grows faster late season and also becomes less susceptible to splitting and may end up bigger and go heavy. And there are of course always exceptions to this theory just like any other

9/1/2026 1:49:21 PM

Europe , slovenia

I was actually the first to mention the 2749’s 67.5 lb/day from Travis’s Facebook. I never said it was a peak or even mentioned DAP. You added “briefly” afterward, yet Travis’s figure was only DAP 36, before the usual DAP 40 to 45 peak window. Where’s the source for saying it briefly peaked at 68? I checked the two articles I found and neither gives a max daily gain.

Bagheera is interesting too. She grew slower than Baloo early, yet she’s now only about 2 lb ahead while Baloo has Fusarium. That doesn’t exactly support slower early growth guaranteeing stronger late gains.

[Last edit: 09/01/26 2:26:45 PM]

9/1/2026 2:22:25 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

First I want to say that I bd believe that the peak is dap 32-38 second I want to say that bagheera may be going heavy or have some vascular problem. If it’s going heavy we’ll know when it’s weighed

9/1/2026 3:12:11 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

I’ll also try to find the article with the 68 a day

9/1/2026 3:12:51 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Wow I did not find the article I was mentioning earlier but I found this https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/09/pumpkin-world-record-travis-gienger-half-moon-bay it says it peaked at 66 a day and if that’s true that’s fine because in my ideal pumpkin the peak is 66 it’s just when it goes over 70 when it’s too much like the 2907 or the 1761 which were over 70

9/1/2026 3:17:01 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

That’s why I like the 3641 cause it never does 70 a day but it does 55-65

9/1/2026 3:18:20 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Actually the 2020 is fine too as only once it did 70+ it’s just the 1885, 2907, and 2365 that have done it

9/1/2026 3:19:30 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

One thing I just thought of was maybe you need to limit it in dap 0-30 because that’s when the cells naturally divide instead of expand but if they go too fast early (650+ lbs at dap 30) that they switch to expansion to early so there are less cells to grow which causes late season crash but if you have one that goes slower in that window the cells divide for longer so there are more that can grow. It’s just an idea but it could be true as most pumpkins that were 650+ at day 30 did poorly later even if they never did 65+ a day

9/1/2026 3:24:52 PM

Europe , slovenia

You need to actually read the article before using it. Finding a random “66 lb/day” number and assuming it refers to the 2749 is not research. That quote is clearly Nick Kennedy talking about his 2497 lb pumpkin.

So where did your original “2749 briefly peaked at 68” actually come from? If you saw an article saying that literally a day before saying you cant find it show it.. Im very sure if it exists it can be found in your search history...

And pumpkins generally peak around DAP 40-45, not 32-38. Did you only decide on DAP 32-38 because I mentioned the 2749 was doing 67.5 lb/day at DAP 36? Because that sounds like changing the peak window to fit the number.

The 2749 definitely hit 67.5 at DAP 36. That doesn't prove it was the peak. And you can't keep making assumptions when a pumpkin doesn't fit your theory, then blame a vascular problem or something else. That's just lying instead of accualy accepting something is doing this or that.

[Last edit: 09/01/26 3:47:21 PM]

9/1/2026 3:42:04 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

I said 32-38 based on a multitude of pumpkins including the 2907, 1761, 2641, and 2009

9/1/2026 9:35:07 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

Also the article wit/ the brief 68 8 day I read a while ago

9/1/2026 9:35:38 PM

Sainte-Catherine-de-Hatley, Quebec, Canada

And peak growth is everything but dap 40-45 because that’s when pumpk8n naturally star5 slowing down

9/1/2026 9:42:30 PM