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Ontario

That clone is growing insane, faster than I think anyone thought was possible, coukd it be that cloning it created some kind of unexpected vigor? Or did the patch actually get improved that much since last year?
And more importantly I think, how big can they go? Not only the clone, bit the other ones as well. Could they have multiple 3000 pound fruit this year? Maybe 1 hit 3500+???
I will be very interested to watch as the season progresses, and we get to watch potentially 2 or 3 WR sized fruit. Could the whole patch all pass 2700? If there was ever a patch to do that, I think 2023 Paton patch would be the one.
Thoughts?

6/24/2023 5:10:20 PM

Lodi, California

The cloned fruit is 50% bigger than the 2907 at the same time, which is crazy. If we assume the growth curve is proportional, that would put the final estimate at nearly 4300 pounds, which is pretty unbelieveable. I doubt that will happen, but if it keeps up I wouldn't be surprised if it goes well past 3000. The interesting thing is its hard to rule out disparate growth curves since its a clone of the 2907. Maybe different fruit on the same plant can have different charactsristics, maybe circumstances have resulted in faster early fruit growth. I have no idea, but it'll be fun to watch, and I hope they break the world record several times over

6/24/2023 5:36:23 PM

Grittyville, WA

I believe there is fairly wide variation in the inherent potential of different fruit on the same plant. Some baby pumpkins do start out bigger than others, if you carefully observe them you will notice it. Most will be normal, some will be a bit smaller, and a few will be larger than the others. Sometimes a large side vine will have a baby pumpkin which is larger (comparing them at the same age) than the baby pumpkins on the main. The normal/smaller side vines usually have smaller pumpkins, but there could be exceptions to this rule. Counting the sepals is a good place to start. Kinda like tomatoes, more sepals, maybe = bigger tomato.
Hopefully they are keeping careful notes and will share what they are learning, maybe they have stumbled upon something that will uproot some of their past assumptions.

6/24/2023 6:49:57 PM

Bethlehem CT

sepal illustration

6/25/2023 8:13:15 AM

Bethlehem CT

Wow didn't mean to post that!
It is quite remarkable what the Paton's are doing. They are shattering a preconceived notion that Cloned plants don't have the same potential. I hope they get one of those clones to the finish line. So much of what used to be considered big pumpkin gospel has changed over the years. This would be one more time that makes us re-imagine the best way to grow a world record giant pumpkin.

Just throwing this question out there. How many pumpkins grown off of a clone have been bigger than the original seedling grown pumpkin?

6/25/2023 8:21:22 AM

Torrance, Ca.

I'm just happy they still post after all that went down.

Please keep it up boys, we all love watching the progress!:)

I think 0 Moon? Good question.

6/25/2023 12:31:56 PM

Syracuse, NY

I believe there are three types of plant starts involved -
actually-started seeds in '23, including 2907s (what a trip to sprout/even write that number), plants from the IPP3000 laboratory project and cuttings from the actual 2907-producing plant of last year. If I'm incorrect, then please correct me. In this case of today, the 281# 2907 cutting is as an experimental plane is that is dropped from a larger plane at high speed and altitude for a head start - perhaps having fewer problems and/or setbacks that MAY befall a seed-borne plant not yet up to speed, with numerous rooting points rather than singular.
REGARDLESS of this, who was it that said it is 'cutting-edge, from cuttings'?
I'm glad that play on words was played, lol;
Fantastic what is being done, in ideal conditions with an audience!
'We’ve had to measure the 2907 clone from a cutting 3 times this morning because...'
Clones from cuttings:
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=336927

6/25/2023 3:31:22 PM

Lodi, California

Well not many people have grown cuttings, and of the ones that have, fewer still grew them for competition. Chris Rodebaugh is the only person I'm aware of, and while the fruit was about 50 pounds lighter than the original the year before, I think that's probably within the margin of error, and seemed to me a pretty compelling reason for the Patons to try cloning the 2907 plant, combined with the fact that plant propagation is sort of a career of theirs. However I think Ruben had already convinced them to try it before I emailed them.

6/25/2023 4:03:33 PM

Lodi, California

I think it would be very smart to keep the plants that produce the biggest, most desirable (heavy, orange, etc) pumpkins alive through propagation, even if they can't produce as well as seeds (dubious given what we've seen so far). Most crosses that are made are speculative, without knowing what the parents will ultimately be capable of. Keeping the best plants alive could allow for some interesting crosses.

6/25/2023 4:09:48 PM

Syracuse, NY

..F2022, F2023...lol.
The cuttings in most people's cases can only be from the year at-hand unless done as is being done here or...
What am I doing - NHRA Drag Racing is on;
Should be totally complimentary to the action I've seen here!
later---eric g

6/25/2023 5:15:06 PM

Prairie Du Sac Wi

I was thinking how cool it would be to keep cloning the 2907 plants and get the clones in the hands of of every heavy hitter grower. Maybe cloning will become more common. Seed growing can be unpredictable but with cloning your actually dealing with the same exact plant. You just not getting any new progress by making crosses. Another question is... would self pollinated clone plants of the 2907 all produce seeds that grow very similar?

6/26/2023 7:52:45 AM

Syracuse, NY

Although probably stellar in its implications and possibilities, probably genetic mutations and whatever else causes variability from the base plant characteristics would begin to come into play - who knows how long after the original selfing, if not immediately.
Me and my Rubik's Cube philosophy:
Once it is out of the package...eric g

6/26/2023 11:11:30 AM

Torrance, Ca.

Hopefully the Patons will chime in. I spoke with Ian about this early this year. I couldn't believe the care, cost and lab work it took to keep this clone going off season. They had the perfect conditions.

I can't wait to see the turnout in a few months!

6/26/2023 11:13:19 AM

Bethlehem CT

SOcal I agree, I don't know of any clones that were bigger than the original. However it seems that growers are really trying a ton of new things and learning a ton in the process. I think the Paton's may prove that it is quite possible to grow a bigger pumpkin on the clone than the original. Sort of like the movie Groundhog Day. They can get another shot until they get it right. They know exactly what kind of potential they are dealing with and there is not a grain of pollen unknown to them like there would be in any given seedling. Not all 1885's are built the same.

6/26/2023 1:37:48 PM

Bethlehem CT

Ashton I like your idea. Matt D used to grow a winter pumpkin using a cutting from the very best pumpkin grown that previous summer. He bred one called "Snowball" that many growers were able to grow some monsters on.

6/26/2023 1:42:00 PM

Stanwood, Washington

There should be a clone competition. Everyone gets a cutting from the same plant at the end of the year and we see who can keep it going through the winter and grow the biggest the following year That would the ultimate test of skill with every one working with the exact same genetics.

6/26/2023 4:16:24 PM

Stanwood, Washington

Everyone is focusing on the clone but one of their 2365's is ahead of their 2907 on day 30 and one of their 1885's is just slightly behind the 2907 on day 30.

The Pattons are making everyone else look like amateurs.

Last year their 2907 was at 188 pounds on Day 20 and 720 pounds on day 30.
Their 2656 was at 157 pounds on Day 20 and 605 pounds on day 30.

From looking through Ian’s diary, This year’s numbers look like this….

Day 20 numbers
2365 Wolf A 203 pounds
2365 Wolf B 217 pounds
1885 Werner A ?
1885 Werner B 194 pounds
2907 Clone 281 pounds

Day 30 numbers
2365 Wolf A 668 pounds
2365 Wolf B 727 pounds
1885 Werner A 714 pounds
1885 Werner B 599 pounds
2907 Clone TBD

They have 5 pumpkins that are on a pace to realistically challenge the world record. And 3 that could be pushing 3000 pounds.

6/26/2023 4:50:09 PM

Lodi, California

They said it was "the first of the clones". They could even have another one growing.

I've devised a method of keeping cuttings going involving a small rectangular planter box. Cut holes in the ends, have the vine grow through the box out the end, and fill it with dirt/media. Keep two or 3 boxes at a time, one well rooted, one rooting, one empty that the vine is growing through. Once the middle box is well rooted the vine can be cut and the first box reused. I'll try it out and post it in my diary.

6/26/2023 5:10:59 PM