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Grittyville, WA

It seems tomatoes will be the first gpc category to potentially be contaminated with GMO's. Because GMO tomatoes will be made public soon. Just curious, I'm sure for the most part the issue is still 15-20 years away.

10/14/2022 3:36:03 PM

President - GPC

It will be easy to Identify... they will have a sticker on them....LMAO!!

10/14/2022 4:32:20 PM

Grittyville, WA

We'll crosspollinate that bridge when we get there.

10/14/2022 5:18:32 PM

Grittyville, WA

...

10/14/2022 5:19:14 PM

Deer Park, WI

Contaminated is a strong word.

10/15/2022 9:42:36 AM

Grittyville, WA

I guess some growers will be in favor of entering tomato x snapdragons as tomatoes. Interesting. I know this is a poor example because this doesnt affect size. But what if someone puts AG genes into a field kin? Eventually you reach a point where you have to say no.

10/15/2022 1:31:38 PM

Bethlehem CT

Gmo tomato

10/16/2022 9:56:49 AM

Bethlehem CT

Didn't mean to post the above, I found this link about one prospective gmo in the near future.
https://www.wired.com/story/a-gmo-purple-tomato-is-coming-to-grocery-aisles-will-the-us-bite/
Michael Pollan in the book Omnivores dilemna states "beware of the health claims"

10/16/2022 10:04:12 AM

Grittyville, WA

The health claims could be legit, but everyone who lived through the "margarine is better than butter" era knows that Big Agriculture can peddle falsehoods for decades in order to make money off the consumer.
Hence, why some of us are as wary as a child burned by a hot stove. Sorry... I know thats a cold shower... but its the truth!

10/16/2022 1:07:00 PM

Muddy Waters

I think you are smoking the funny tomato plant LOL

10/17/2022 9:40:00 PM

Grittyville, WA

Elon Musk can afford that stuff. I'd like to make a million bucks or do something great with my life.

10/17/2022 11:05:32 PM

Lloydminster/AB

People that think there is anything bad about GMOs are brainwashed by idiots.

10/18/2022 9:29:58 PM

Lodi, California

I don't know a whole lot about GMOs Don and I'm also inclined to believe that they aren't so terrible, but people who don't acknowledge that human meddling can have consequences on existing populations are equally stupid.

10/18/2022 9:34:47 PM

Grittyville, WA

"Scientific studies paid for by filthy rich corporations prove that GMO plants that make their own pesticides are healthy." "Trust the science." "I am the science."

10/18/2022 10:38:44 PM

Grittyville, WA

The same stuff that is neurotoxic to insects might be neurotoxic to humans? Might explain the mess the USA is in? 31 trillion in debt with interest rates going up?? But whatever... I am just a conspiracy nut.

10/18/2022 10:51:33 PM

Kutztown, PA

It's doubtful we'll continue to be able to feed the world as populations continue to rise without GMO foods. If you put 2 mice in a box and give them food you'll soon have more mice. If you continue to put more and more food in the box the mouse population will continue to increase and again more food must be added. That's where we're at as a planet right now. At some point there wont be enough food to maintain the population and the population will die back to what can be sustained. I say we need to go to "Soylent Green" immediately! (See old 1973 movie with same name) :)

https://www.google.com/search?q=soylent+green&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1014US1014&oq=soylent+green&aqs=chrome.0.0i271j46i131i433i512l2j0i512l7.3144j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

10/19/2022 8:44:32 AM

Watlington, UK

I know a bit about GM as I studied genetics at BSc level.

My studies weren't paid for by filthy rich corporations and from what I have learned I can only say it's a good thing - a VERY good thing - as long as the controls are there and rules are adhered to.

Remember, we've been messing with genetics for 1000s of years: you think the Atlantic Giant is 'natural'? lol

If you're going to knock bad science, you'd better have some good science to back it up. Otherwise it's just rumour/hearsay/anecdote/conspiracy.

10/19/2022 5:29:34 PM

Lloydminster/AB

And those that are brainwashed are sometimes even bigger idiots.

10/19/2022 11:22:42 PM

Lloydminster/AB

Ashton that is the one thing to be concerned about in regards to GMOs. Our environment and effects on the other plants in it.
Human health consequences are just conspiracy theories used to incite fear. We've been modifying plants since we learned to farm. GMOs just shortcut that. I suppose we could make a plant thats dangerous to us by making it poisonous but that doesn’t make much sense. When we digest a plant it breaks down into whatever chemicals it has in it.
It drives me crazy when i see non GMO on a package like it’s implied that somehow that makes it better than non GMO when it clearly makes no difference to my digestive system if the plant in the package is tolerant to a particular plant enzyme or has more vitamins in it or not. Sales increase and the marketing guys laugh at all the idiots.
Sorry for the rant but this bugs me.

10/19/2022 11:47:27 PM

Grittyville, WA

Im not knocking science, just have been on this planet long enough to know that sin, desire, emotion, lust for power or money, gets in the way of the truth. Where is this utopia where those things dont get in the way of the truth? Maybe you shrug it off as inconsequential. Anyhow, this discussion is too wintery for me... one more day of summer here !!!!!

10/19/2022 11:50:30 PM

Grittyville, WA

Don, as a beekeeper and observer of nature I can say that GMO has risks to things besides humans, which could then become a detriment to humans. As for consumption, I trust that what my anscestors ate was good. Dont fix what aint broke, and we need to think on a scale much broader and bigger than just GMOs to feed the world.

10/19/2022 11:58:44 PM

Bethlehem CT

SOmething that I would consider to be analogous to GMO's would be that it is like artificial intelligence. Both can be useful tools that helps us, but I think we can all agree that things can also go the other way too.
In a few years perhaps left wing americans will believe that GMO's are safe and right wingers will warn of there dangers.

10/20/2022 7:52:47 AM

South Dakota

Every single pollination modifies the genetic structure of the progeny. Hence a genetically modified organism. I think the methods used to genetically modify the organism is what is the controversy. We probably all have genetically modified a few pumpkins/tomatoes/melons/gourds/etc., but our methods are as old as agriculture itself so are acceptable to the people who think new science based methodologies are all bad, no matter how it is used and regulated. Pretty much all technologies can be manipulated into bad or evil things, but the good out weighs the bad in most cases.

10/20/2022 8:16:25 AM

Bethlehem CT

I come from the land grant college system which only educated me on half of the story. After graduation I had to educate myself on other topics that were neglected. Things like soil biology and understanding the complexities of plant soil,and nutrient relationships, these systems are very complex and are hard to quantify and study with traditional methods.
The idea of combining knowledge between the "0rganic" and State university" type approach should come as no surprise to any giant pumpkin grower.
All the best pumpkin growers are already combining the best of both worlds. They are aware of soil biology and look to farm soil microbes and soil health. They use products like actinovate and make sure the plant is getting all the micronutrients as well. Even resorting to foliar nutrient sprays to help the crops health. But at the same time they also need to access the knowledge gleaned from Government funded science. They use fungicides and insecticides and aren't afraid to use a synthetically made fertilizer. People need to educate themselves and come up with there own thoughts on these matters. (as they do everything else.).
Perhaps all the GMOS have been safe so far. That doesn't mean they all will be in the future. ( I do think you can find some evidence that glyphosate may have harmful effects to mammalian fertility). But the possibly harmful glyphosate is not the gmo, it is used in conjunction with the gmo seed.
GO to any university and try to study then publish research that is on GMO's. Everything will be fine if your conclusions are the same as big ag's but I fear for you if they are different and possibly negative.
These things can become "Too big to fail" How you understand human nature will help you determine what comes next.

10/20/2022 8:27:59 AM

Bethlehem CT

I guess we are still allowed to debate and talk about this topic which is great, I can see a day coming where a caption will be underneath each post from someone that mentioned GMO and it would say something like;
"To find out more information on gmos go to our website"

10/20/2022 8:34:53 AM

Kutztown, PA

Don't get me wrong. I do believe GMO foods are the only way to sustain population growth (except soylent green :)). I do NOT believe GMO foods are a good thing. Selecting plants/animals based on certain desirable traits is not the same as genetically altering a plant or animal genome by adding to it or substracting from it. If you think it is then your simply wrong. Splicing in or altering a specific gene is the essence of GMO. It's basically adding, subtracting, or in some way modifying the existing gene pool of a living thing to get some desirable outcome. When we select plants, e.g. for pumpkin weight, we are choosing from genes that already exist in the gene pool, not modifying or adding to them. That's typically called artificial selection. Natural selection, i.e. the evolution of living things progresses via the selection of random genetic mutations that occur over time. If the mutation is conducive to survival based on environmental conditions then that alteration in the genome, being desirable may be sustained. That neither is GMO since the mutations occur naturally and are selected based survival. I eat a straight up Paleo (Cave man) diet. Pretty much nothing out of a box or processed. I do make exceptions (I love me some hot Italian sausage on a hogie roll with onions and mustard). I do believe that based on feeding the world as it is GMO is a necessary evil. What the fall out will be remains to be seen. BUT, don't say GMO in anyway is the same as folks selecting plants and animals based for certain desirable traits because it simply not. Splice all the genes you want but the first time it's done to a giant pumpkin I'm out.

10/20/2022 9:58:59 AM

Kutztown, PA

PS - I also have a degree in Biology from the University of South Florida. I know enough to know I don't know enough.

10/20/2022 10:01:11 AM

Grittyville, WA

As it regards the GPC, since they dont want to accept a marrow that has pumpkin genetics in it, I think they should not allow a tomato that has snapdragon genetics in it. On the other hand, they do allow squash to have pumpkin genetics in them as long as it doesnt affect certain traits.
Hmm.

Well, I dont have the answer. Whatever the GPC decides, will be the answer. The future is coming all too fast, for better or worse.

10/20/2022 12:17:07 PM

Grittyville, WA

I will say that natural intraspecies genetic tranfers are an interesting topic that was not taught when I was in school (via bacterial vectors, etc) so the idea that nature does things in a controlled and pure fidelity-to-ones-own-species manner may be scientifically obsolete. I will admit that my own real science education is obsolete at this point... maybe GMO really does resemble nature more than I was taught.
But where I believe I am still correct is: to not trust the human brain when it comes to conflicting interests and honesty, the reward system in the human brain does seem it can overpower our better judgement even in the best of us.

10/20/2022 12:34:02 PM

Grittyville, WA

^ I meant INTERspecies! I thought to myself "I dont want to use the wrong word" but then what do I do? I go and use the wrong word.

10/20/2022 12:48:05 PM

Kutztown, PA

Gritty, I think there are probably some unintentional genetic accidents out there where bacteria or some other means, through some weird mechanism or physical phenomena inserted a gene or something like that. I one did a presentation on a technical paper that asserted that a mite that lives on the head of a fruit fly and feeds on the fruit flies eggs might somehow transfer DNA from one species of fruit fly to another via it's rather large proboscis (Nose like structure). Basically it's might get a little DNA on its nose when penetrating an egg then pass it to another egg . Conditions and timing would have to be perfect. I think the author termed it "Horizontal Gene Transfer". Anyway, it was just a theory, but maybe it could happen. I guess the take away is "keep your nose clean" :). Maybe some selection isn't as structured as I presented it, but the Lions share of genetic modification occurs just as it was presented by CD.

10/20/2022 3:55:43 PM

Kutztown, PA

By the way I try to do the Paleo thing as clean as I can get it, but if it's a choice between a GMO New York Strip and know steak at all I'm all in for the GMO medium rare:)

10/20/2022 4:09:09 PM

Watlington, UK

"bacteria or some other means, through some weird mechanism or physical phenomena inserted a gene or something like that"

Look up Agrobacterium tumefaciens

10/20/2022 5:39:42 PM

Kutztown, PA

Gerald, very interesting stuff. This bacteria apparently inserts some portion of it's DNA into plant cells for the purpose of feeding. I did not read s that the bacteria DNA was inserted in a way that would be represented in the next generation of plants grown from the seeds of the host plant. The introduction of the bacteria did nothing more than send a chemical signal to surrounding plant cells. Altering the plants genome with respect to reproduction seems unlikely. Here's what I read:

.... When a nearby host plant is wounded near the soil line by insect feeding, transplant injury or any other means the bacterium chemotactically moves into the wound site and between host cells. These bacteria then stimulate the surrounding host cells to rapidly and irregularly divide. The bacterium accomplishes this by inserting a piece of its own DNA into the host cells' chromosomes, causing overproduction of cytokinins and auxins which are plant growth regulators, and opines which serve as nutrients for the pathogen. .......

10/21/2022 8:58:53 AM

Kutztown, PA

Inserting/splicing some portion of DNA into a few cells doesn't mean that the portion of the DNA inserted in a plant stem will run up to the sex cells (pollen & ovum), splice itself into a chromosome, and then be through some major alteration of the world as we know it be successfully transcribed into the next generation. This type of thing may occur in nature but I don't think Agrobacterium tumefaciens is an example of it.

10/21/2022 9:12:06 AM

Watlington, UK

It doesn't have to be done through the sex cells, you only have to transmit the gene you want using Agrobacterium tumefaciens into a single normal cell. Then you grow it on in vitro. Then you soon have a complete plant, all the cells of which will contain the implanted gene.
Now if only someone could identify and isolate the gene that makes pumpkins heavy...!

10/21/2022 1:15:32 PM

Grittyville, WA

Plants could propogate an interspecies genetic mutation much better than we could... if its a meristem cell it just needs to grow into a reproductive shoot.

The gene for navel oranges for example, did it come from within the plant or was there a bacterial/viral/insect vectors that inserted a piece of foreign DNA into that original orange tree? We can agree there was a mutation, but unless its standard polyploidy, we can wonder what was the cause of that mutation...?

In animals or humans the foreign DNA would have to enter the reproductive cells and be incorporated in the miosis process, I believe. This is a guarded process but maybe if a person had an infection and bacteria phages were present...

Here's a question for you, will anyone who took the mrna shots pass spike protein genes to their kids due to those foreign genes being present in their body? Can we really expect our bodies to filter out every foreign particle? Probably not. Detrimental mutations probably get filtered out in miscarriages, which are probably an more common than people realize, and in terms of natural selection/ preserving a species genetic fitness... of greater biological importance than people realize. It drives me nuts when they say these shots are safe for pregnant women. By safe, I think they mean you wont spontaneously combust.
Their shots are "Safe and effective"... In the fine print: *Compared to being thrown inside a nuclear reactor for an hour. I digress...

10/21/2022 2:54:08 PM

Grittyville, WA

^ Seriously, they really do this. They compare the covid shots to the flu shots in their studies, believe me its comparing rotten apples to rotten oranges, because all they are doing is comparing one toxic shot to another. They are NOT comparing their shots to, say, drinking a cup of organic apple juice. Then the truth would come out, and they know it. (More than it already has).

Big pharma destruction of the scientific method: Its like saying "Injecting aluminum is safe! We compared it to injecting lead, and there was no difference, therefore its safe!" These people are both the worst scientists and the worst humans. There are lots of good people out there, but they are all humble and silent. They dont get their noses dirty seeking the swamp stench the way I do.

10/21/2022 3:12:42 PM

Kutztown, PA

Gerald, done in vitro makes more sense. Gritty is exactly right about animals and the mitosis process. Wow Gritty! Going off on the vaccines. LOL Haven't seen any spike headed rug rats around here. You make a good point though. When an RNA virus taps into DNA to replicate itself no spiked proteins and other cool looking appendages are expressed in the next generation of animals. So far the vaccine antibodies haven't produced any spiked headed kids I'm aware of. I have a new grand daughter about 10 months old. So far her head seem fairly round and symmetrical.:)

10/21/2022 4:27:15 PM

Gritty, here is a story that you might like and it shows the power of large companies pushing stuff plus look up "seratonin" and you will find the lengths big companies will go to in order to discredit people for their money making machines to discontinue. Look what big pharma did to discredit the Doctor who first said ulcers could be cured with cheap antibiotics instead of very expensive ulcer drugs. Look up the fight over Xrays. Look up thalidomide-babies.
Being of an opinion does not always mean "tinfoil hat" but do not order anymore of them. Belittling a person that is an easy target does not make any opinion right.

https://nationalpost.com/health/serotonin-chemical-imbalance-depression

10/23/2022 7:15:37 AM

Grittyville, WA

https://corporatewatch.org/pfizer-six-scandals-to-remember/

The thing where they test drugs on Africans is particularly disgusting to me. They test stuff in places where they think no one is watching, and where no one will file a lawsuit. I dont expect perfection from anyone, but I am always in favor of raising the bar a notch.

10/23/2022 6:45:06 PM