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Lebanon

Hi all,
I'm wondering who else out there is using/has experience using clonex rooting hormone? I'm trying it out this year, gelling top and bottom nodes and burying vines (main and secondaries), and I've researched it as much as I can using the search function (Matt D's diary, and others) and still feel there's a lot I don't know. Do people use it for the duration of the season? Does it make sense to lay off it a little around fruit set/first month after set, to limit the number of sinks competing for resources?

I've also seen a few people who believe it slows down vine growth, which seems plausible, and others who disagree. Any consensus on this, and if it does, is the trade-off still worthwhile?

I'm only on my second season, so I'm fairly certain something other than using this or not will be the limiting factor this year, but I'm always interested in 'garden experiments'!

6/10/2021 10:35:01 PM

Watlington, UK

I'm in favour of 'experiments' too but without proper controls and statistical analysis it's all but impossible to draw any kind of conclusions about any of them. Still, it's fun all the same.
I've used Clonex for 3 years now, and my 'conclusion' is to use it on side vines only. I use it above and below each node, and timing is critical.
Rooting hormones work by telling cells to differentiate into roots rather than stems. If the hormone is applied to early, then lots of root will appear, but you won't get much stem. You need to make sure there is enough stem present to support a strong internal vascular system, before adding the hormone.
In other words, don't apply it too early! Probably the best time is when you see the initial stages of a root starting to form. That tells you that particular area of the plant is ready for roots. The hormone will speed up the process and multiply the rooting effect.
Good luck with your efforts!

6/11/2021 3:24:12 AM

Lebanon

Thanks for the reply! And 'experiment' is probably the wrong term, I don't even have a proper question, much less controls! Any thoughts on how long in the season to use it? I think a stronger root system would be an advantage, but I don't want to grow roots at the expense of lbs of pumpkin

6/11/2021 6:21:24 AM

Watlington, UK

As long as you're burying nodes, then by all means use it. It only stimulates the cells at the node to begin rooting and branching. It doesn't tell the plant to make roots at the expense of top growth; more roots = a greater surface area for water & nutrient uptake = more pumpkin and leaf growth.

6/11/2021 7:00:27 AM

South Dakota

I use powdered Indol 3 rooting hormone in my vine burying amendments. I think it helps get things going a little faster is all.

6/11/2021 9:22:44 AM

Georgia

I think clonex is over-rated as a part of one's growing game. If you are trying to grow a large pumpkin, clonex is not a major player in success.

IMO, of things we can control, it comes down to soil, fertilizing and watering. Followed by fungicide and pest control. If you are trying to squeeze an extra 40lbs on a 2500lb pumpkin, then clonex might mean something.

6/11/2021 10:01:41 AM

Watlington, UK

@ Orange U. Glad you're probably right, but then I can think of about 10 other things that each might only add about 40lbs

Which is a total of 400lbs ;)

It all adds up

6/11/2021 2:04:02 PM

Lebanon

I can certainly believe the benefits are marginal, but it's tough to believe it's 'over rated' when I can only see 5-6 people using it in their diaries, but probably 75% or more are using myco/azos on their plants, which is basically trying to do the same thing

6/12/2021 5:51:17 PM

Georgia

Showme, it is funny that you mention myco. The North American record holder at 2528 does not use it or clonex. So that begs the question about how much does myco and clonex really add. If the North American record holder used neither then you really cannot say that it is a "must have."

6/12/2021 10:17:39 PM

Lebanon

That's a fair point, and I've read that, if I recall, his reason being was something along the lines of 'in soil this dialed in, the benefits to adding it are negligible' or something to that affect? Maybe I'm just looking for a magic potion, but I can't help but think there is some benefit to a stronger root system, maybe especially to idiot rookies who neglected so much as a soil test?

Really just wondering if anyone has even a theoretical plan with it, I'm hoping to pollinate in the next 7-10 days and just wondering if others use it right up and thru pollination, or back off so not to pull resources from the tiny pumpkin.

And yes, a soil test would have been a better use of time and resources, but there you have it

6/12/2021 11:26:14 PM

New Berlin,NY

I used it last year and my average pumpkin weight for my top three went up 200 pounds.

Take that with a grain of sand.

6/12/2021 11:35:21 PM

Lebanon

Framac, did you apply it consistently throughout the season, with every node buried, or back off at any point?

6/12/2021 11:41:42 PM

Colorado

Im not sure either way on the rooting hormone effects.One would have to do side by side comparisons of same plant,same soil same burying and then compare secondary rooting during the season to see if theres a difference between treated and untreated nodes. But that still doesnt answer if extra roots leads to extra pounds. the first contest i ever won was by around four pounds over second place so how much of a benefit is worth the trouble is debatable and different for everyones goals.Lots of unknowns in this hobby.

6/12/2021 11:46:13 PM

Lebanon

Cojoe, several good questions, and the rooting question would be an easy experiment to do with the space and resources (and patience). But my limited understanding about plants makes me think of this analogy: the roots act as the hose, the leaves act like the pump, and the fruit (sink) like the balloon. Do we really know which is limiting growth at any given point? Maybe you need 10-15 feet of plant behind a pumpkin, not for the leaves, but for the roots? Surely, in that case, it would be beneficial to juice the roots, no?

6/13/2021 12:06:24 AM

Colorado

I would think so.But i dont have the proof just the theory. I think azos has gotten me better secondary rooting at the nodes but I havent done more than end off season dissection.I like your description of what does what. I also think thats prob whats going on but I cant prove it. I just copy other good growers and hope for good weather and luck of the seed..

6/13/2021 12:31:14 AM

Syracuse, NY

Use what you CAN to get what you can GET. If you can use Mycorrhizae, then, by all means do so, in ALL of your soil, to GET second place or as far up the ladder as possible. It makes no sense to ME to think 'He didn't use it, so why should I?'; Probably every WR or record anyway is a matter of a high percentage of luck along with everything else that went into that WR or record. As in, why has the WR stood strong for what, 6 years now, and the same seed stock and newer ones have been used many dozens of times to try to exceed that weight, as of yet unsuccessfully? Luck, people.
Oh, and of course, the exceptional growing skills of Mathias Willemijns.

When I grew my previous PB of 912.5 in '06, (best day ever!) it was NOT because I was a decent grower (no soil test, thank you!, NO vine-burying and probably more than one fruit on that 1370 Rose plant, lol) - it was because I was lucky to have had a great year and everybody else had had a lousy year; I think I won 1st place by about 25 pounds or so. Ever since about 2004 or so, though, I HAVE had Mycorrhizae in my soil, universally so. I'll be trying SOME brand of rooting hormone product for the first time this year, but using something nonetheless.

Show - One thing I CAN attest to is that if you pollinate more than one pumpkin on the same vine, the latest pumpkin is most likely to be favored over any ones previous, so, if yer happy with whatcha got? stick with it and/or look to another vine, preferably on the other side of the plant. Previous pollinations will probably abort in a week or so. I experimented!

mepumpkins - Don't worry about resources going from here over to there and such, unless there's advice otherwise; 'Pay a little now or a lot later'?

I feel that the Sun is the ultimate source and only without it will we sink! eg

6/13/2021 12:59:11 AM

Georgia

Showme, I am in no way personally attacking your "battle plan." The beautiful thing about this hobby is the ability personalize and experiment. And at the end of the day it is your time, and you are the manager of your own time.

Clonex just reminds me of Dipping Dots. Dipping Dots has been around since the early 80s but still calls itself the "ice cream of the future". Yet, I would still rather have just regular ice cream after 40 years of future ice cream. But obviously, a lot of people must like Dipping Dots because they are still around. :-)

6/13/2021 11:23:01 AM

Lebanon

I certainly didn't take it personally, I'm here for the discussion! As far as I can tell, this is the only corner of the internet where people would understand what I'm even asking, it's easier to find advice on growing pumpkins with milk than with rooting hormone!

And your analogy is apt, I'm the type to jump at the 'new thing', and then think, 'huh, seems a lot like the old thing, but more expensive...'

It does seem to be encouraging my plant to root more aggressively, but maybe I just have better plants this year, I'm not exactly doing a double blind, placebo controlled study!

6/13/2021 11:52:22 AM

Jericho Vermont

I agree with many who have felt that with clonex, "the juice isn't worth the squeeze" if you are not going for a world record. I tried clonex for 2 seasons and did not see an increase in weights or plant health. Unlike many growers, I do not use myco and do not add anything to my secondary's as I bury them. We tried myco for 5 years and our pumpkins weights not only did not increase but they actually decreased and we did not grow a 1000 pound plus pumpkin during that period. The first year we stopped, the pumpkin weights increased and we had a pumpkin over 1000. I realize this is not scientific but for our little patch keeping everything simple and the plants healthy seems to be the way to go. For any new grower I suggest to experiment and find out what works best in your backyard and on your budget.

6/13/2021 6:55:32 PM

Lebanon

VTJohn, I can certainly understand how a person could arrive at that conclusion, painting that stuff on every dang node for three plants, it takes time! I'd probably get better results spending that time weeding tbh

6/13/2021 8:05:11 PM

President - GPC

Big Roots, BIG FRUITS

6/14/2021 8:59:45 AM

Syracuse, NY

That should be its company logo!
The surface of the bottle would have roots protruding, lol---
I'll take a case! eg

6/14/2021 11:04:09 PM

New Berlin,NY

I backed off 2 weeks after pollination.

6/15/2021 10:45:45 AM

Dillonvale, Ohio

I tried Clonex for the first time this year as well. I have used it on both the main and secondaries, my observation is that something is slowing growth for me this year, and the tips of all my secondaries are laying on the ground, still curved at the tip and growing. Both plants are small at 200 sq ft, they should be approaching 400 at this point. I pollinated 1 today, the other will be pollinated tomorrow. I will continue to bury vines, but I don't think I'll be using Clonex anymore this year.

6/17/2021 10:48:48 PM

Watlington, UK

@Showmepumpkins I just saw your diary post and it does seem reasonable to conclude that the Clonex has increased biomass, branching and quantity of roots where applied. You may be concerned that it's at the expense of top growth and it is 'possible' that is correct, but you can bet those extra roots will not go unused over the next couple of months! Think of them as an investment that will pay back over time.

6/27/2021 6:01:48 PM

Lebanon

@Gerald, I certainly hope they do, applying that stuff is work! Seeing the root growth and branching makes me think they must be doing something. As I noted, if nothing else, it really seems to have made the plants less prone to flagging in the heat, which has certainly helped so far.

6/27/2021 7:32:29 PM