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Watlington, UK

In the past I've used it on side vine nodes, both upper and lower, and it works great.
This year I used on on the main vine nodes.
Not a good idea... secondaries refusing to grow. At least I think that's why they're not growing... see diary for pics.

5/30/2021 4:31:13 PM

Colorado

My guess would be it not the rooting hormone.To cool of soil/plant or low nitrogen would be the cause imho.

5/30/2021 5:17:04 PM

Colorado

it's not

5/30/2021 5:17:41 PM

Watlington, UK

Temps have been fine, plenty of N too, as you can see by the leaves and length of main vine. You might be right of course, we have no way of knowing exactly, but the rooting hormone theory makes sense to me - the vine that IS growing is the one that I didn't apply the hormone to.

5/30/2021 6:16:35 PM

Bethlehem CT

I agree with Cojoe... but if your theory is correct, perhaps you may have stumbled on a way to reduce tertiary pinching. It would be interesting to see if anyone else has had this experience with rooting hormone. Who is to say what side effects it might have besides promoting root growth. I know Matt D has used rooting hormone before. Do you know which hormone you were applying. IBA? Like the Paton's mention or NAA which is also a common one.

5/30/2021 6:22:41 PM

Watlington, UK

Yes it's IBA, or Clonex gel to be specific. I'm guessing that in this case it promotes root growth, at the expense of 'green' growth. Which would be of benefit for nodes on secondary vines, as you suggest. Maybe someone could do some a proper experiment? I can only grow one plant so I'd rather not :)

5/30/2021 6:50:56 PM

Plymouth, MN

Looking at your diary, I wonder if you aren't burying too soon relative to when the secondaries are forming. I usually won't bury a vine/node until I have 6-12" secondaries well-established off of it.

5/30/2021 7:29:14 PM

Syracuse, NY

Yeah, to chime in, short-as-of-yet secondaries are not to be buried too soon and that's the first conclusive length that i've heard; Plus, your plant is also growing toward what appears to be the sunlight - in my opinion, all factors to be considered, including the N, some plants may grow more rapidly toward the light and fill in secondaries later than others. Hence, everything being in order, everything will fill in in due time, like, what would happen if the main were terminated? Or, what if the light were blocked and shone from one SIDE of the plant instead...hmmm...Now, I'm motivated to go plant another before dark. Not kidding, and good luck, Gerald---eric g

5/30/2021 7:56:07 PM

Syracuse, NY

Hey - shine a spotlight on the middle of one side = 12 hours on 12 hours off (along with the day/night cycle) - no harm in it and you be the first? whooahhh! eg

5/30/2021 7:59:00 PM

lack of phosphorus maybe or as cjb says premature burying.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=274196

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=10&p=661856

5/30/2021 8:37:18 PM

The Bowery

I have been using rooting hormones (clonex and others) for nodes for well over 10 years. Matt Debacco has called me the pioneer of gelling. Thanks Matt! What I can say is that you get explosive root growth and I’ve never seen any ill effects of slowing growth or stoppage of secondary growth. Never had any troubles with stunted plants or anything like that. I’ve used hormones on all nodes including main vines, side vines and even tertiary growth off secondary vines. Main vine roots seem to get the biggest rooting explosion although I’ve had carrot like root formations off secondary vines. End of season it is always harder to pull plants out because of the mass rooting. There is a total night and day difference between non-treated and treated nodes.
I will say that in the infancy of my usage of hormones on the nodes, I noticed radical vine curving. I initially thought I had ruined my plants and the season was over. This was not the case. Within 24 hours the vines had corrected themselves. What I gathered from all the years of “gelling” is that if you apply it to an open wound, aka where you cut off a tendril, apply to a broken root or to tertiary growth, you will see vine curving. If you are careful and only apply to the root nodes and roots, typically you will not see any vine curving.
My first gelling this season, I seen plenty of vine curving within an hour of application. On my second application this season, I did not see any vine curving, as I was more careful to not touch open wounds with the gel. All in all I don’t think it does the plant any harm if the vines curve. They are not brittle but I wouldn’t try to stake them to grow straight, as they will correct themselves in 24 hours typically.

5/30/2021 8:37:40 PM

New York

I used clonex rooting hormone last year and am using it again this year. I use it on all modes including main you can look at my diary last year for pictures if you want of the plant the first 2 feet of secondaries were slow and than I started applying more nitrogen and everything after was great

5/30/2021 9:10:52 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

I am in agreement you are burying way too early.

5/30/2021 9:14:30 PM

New York

How far off the ground is the tip of the main? Maybe it’s too low in nitrogen? My sidevines looked like that a couple days ago so I gave them a shot of calcium nitrate and they’re all about 3-6 inches long now and the main was about 14 inches off the ground

5/30/2021 9:20:16 PM

Westmoreland, KS

My plants last year looked almost exactly like your. I had very little sunlight and it was cool. I thought it was due to the lack of light. Over the winter I added more heat to my greenhouse but can't do much about the sunlight. This year has been almost exactly like last year no sunlight and an extremely cool April and May. Look at my plants this year the side vines are huge. I'm guessing it may be too cool of soil.

5/30/2021 9:26:03 PM

Westmoreland, KS

Side note I waited it out and my side vines eventually took off and that plant produced a 1990 pounder...I wouldn't worry too much about slow side vines they will come in time keep the plant healthy and you'll have a monster at the end of the season.

5/30/2021 9:27:45 PM

Syracuse, NY

Not speaking for myself, but, you got more information about your situation than i've ever seen compile so quickly. I would read this page over again and follow it all - your side vines will outgrow your main! eg

5/30/2021 10:08:17 PM

Watlington, UK

Thanks everyone some food for thought for sure. The main vine isn't growing towards a light source, but it is growing towards the propane flame which I have on overnight, which is a source of heat + CO2. Maybe that's something to do with it? That said I will certainly up the nitrogen, easily done and will start today.

5/31/2021 4:15:07 AM

Syracuse, NY

Mornin'! In addition, you said are limiting your water to try to control where the roots are forming, something that cannot even be observed and, if i were a plant, i'd expend only what i needed to to get to the light, create flowers and further my species; this is similar to if i had one dollar left and 'what am i gonna do with it to get to my next destination?'. I suggest a heavy, heavy PLAIN watering every other day out to at least 3 feet past the present plant perimeter along with (or, simply, in place of) any new adjustments that may further alter the plant's present course. Can't hurt, and it's non-harming, IMHO---eg

5/31/2021 7:45:03 AM

Georgia

I think it is the early vine burying. The soft bunny heads of the secondaries are not bulldozers. They do not plow through dirt. It is an easy theory to test out. Just stop burying the vine, or at least bury only the stretch between nodes. Then wait until a secondary pops out.

It could be something super complicated. But I am always a fan of Occam's razor and would start with the easiest solutions first.

5/31/2021 8:18:45 AM

Watlington, UK

OK I haven't actually buried the heads of the secondaries, just the nodes themselves. If you see the pic in the diary, you can see the heads peeping out a couple of inches - but they just stop there. That said I will quit burying and see what happens. We're in for a period of sunny weather now so perhaps that will speed growth across the whole plant.

5/31/2021 11:57:06 AM

New York

I can email you pictures of my secondaries as the season goes on so that you can decide next year if you want. I am using clonex on my main vine.

5/31/2021 12:21:35 PM

Grittyville, WA

Once the plant has extra phloem it will push the sides out. If a plant has a lot of extra phloem then buried territories that are practically dead actually can become little bulldozers. So I always think of it in terms of lack of phloem. Growing extra roots could distract the plant from making an effort elsewhere.

eg I think the $1 analogy is true. They are on a fiscal budget early in the year... And plants can't think but they are smart.

5/31/2021 1:19:20 PM

Grittyville, WA

Orange U Glad is correct though they dont act like bulldozers early in the year... However when you dead end everything and lose the pumpkin then yes they can. Just trying to add to the discussion, not taking away from what's been said.

5/31/2021 1:26:29 PM

Watlington, UK

@adam044 the tip of the main is about 1-2" off the ground. I think that's OK... I don't want to overdo it with the nitrogen but yes it could be a little higher, certainly not lower.
@pumpkinpal2 yes makes sense and I did just that today. I want to tease those roots out to where the moisture is. That said I did have a phytopthora problem late last year so I don't want too much water down there.

5/31/2021 5:45:34 PM

Syracuse, NY

We, and the vines, are all rooting for you, lol, and good point about your previous experience---eg

5/31/2021 9:28:44 PM

Georgia

You will be fine Gerald. Pumpkin growing is a witch. It seems like the more you do, the more you end up doing. lol

6/1/2021 2:22:33 PM

Watlington, UK

@ Orange U. Glad funny you say that, I come back from 3 days away and all the sides that were stationary at 1" are now all 12" each. That said, the older leaves are now showing a potassium deficiency (I think). Maybe that was the problem all along?! We keep going :)

6/5/2021 4:06:23 PM

Grittyville, WA

A bit of manganese is a possible solution to a potassium problem. It's a cofactor in getting the potassium levels right in the plant regardless of what's in your soil (at least that's what the sap analysis guy on youtube says).

6/7/2021 1:26:37 AM