From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Georgia

Ian Paton posted an excellent discussion about seed etiquette. The answers about expectations were interesting and I thought a poll might shed some insight as to what the recipients felt was their level of commitment to growing a free premium seed.

If you were requesting a free seed from a heavy hitter, what do you feel your obligation is to growing that seed and please choose only one answer:

A. It is okay to store free premium seeds for the future which may or may not ever be germinated.

B. It is okay to use free premium seeds as back-ups plants which may not see the dirt after germination.

C. It is okay to use free premium seeds as a part of your plant competition in the patch which may be culled even though healthy.

D. Unless the plant is abnormal or damaged, the free premium seed should see dirt and be allowed to grow throughout the season.

6/26/2019 1:20:33 PM

Hopedale Ohio

Big D. and I don't mean Dallas

6/26/2019 1:34:52 PM

Westmoreland, KS

d

6/26/2019 1:48:40 PM

Grittyville, WA

Generally there's enough seeds to go around. I find C to be the most interesting situation. If you plant two side by side, which may be wise, but then both plants end up being good, is it terrible that a potentially good seed was wasted? I wonder if there is a better, or perfect, method.

6/26/2019 1:49:42 PM

Grittyville, WA

I guess dont plant two valuable seeds from growers whose feelings may be hurt, side by side.

6/26/2019 1:58:07 PM

On a cliff in the desert

D. Pumpkin growing is a marathon not a sprint. There may be many really good seeds out there that never see a full season because they can't come out of the gate sprinting the first 30 days. I grew a 2002 Tobeck that took 3 weeks to get its first true leaf. After that the plant took off once it started growing a vine. I think most people would have culled a plant like that when it is side by side with another plant and the other plant started well out of the gate.

6/26/2019 2:39:32 PM

Cornelius, Oregon

I guess I look at it this from the sender's point of view. Once I send someone a seed, its theirs to do with as they please. So my answer is E-All of the above. I thought about this a little earlier this year when I went to the seed closet to start some 1104's for the old seed contest and I didn't have any left. How many did I send out that are just sitting in a closet, or a mouse ate, or whatever, but even in my hayday when I had multiple hot seeds going did I worry about if Grower X was going to actually plant it or not as I sent them off. It was more like - cool, I have a new contact, and maybe they will have a good seed someday and give me one of theirs if I ask. I know my way of thinking is old and from a time when there were more seeds in a pumpkin than there were serious growers, but it still doesn't change how I feel about the seeds I send. Once they are in your hot little hands, they are yours to do with as you please. - My ramblings of an old fuddy duddy.

6/26/2019 2:57:31 PM

Hopedale Ohio

I have a 2112 Skinner that is moving very slow, put outside Memorial weekend. It looked like a runt but it's starting to take off, so you never know. I was just happy to get that seed.

6/26/2019 2:58:58 PM

Plymouth, MN

B or C. I seed speculate (horde) on the stuff I get from auction, will at a bare minimum start what I'm gifted and let the plants compete.

6/26/2019 3:56:39 PM

Georgia

Pumpkinguru your point of view is very solid and of course, is correct for you. But for some donors like Ian and his 2433 lb seed, were expecting more recipients to actually grow the plant. Some of the responses in the Ian's thread from recipients showed different levels of obligation. It was Kerry's honest answer in the previous thread that got me thinking about how the recipient's view their obligation.

Craig is right that B and C are the same basic answer, but I feel one of them gives the seed a better chance to actually be grown.

I am sure that no one who emailed Ian said, "What a great season you had, and the 2433 was super. I would love to grow it, but only if it is bigger after 6 weeks than the other 8 plants that I am germinating for two spots in my patch."

6/26/2019 4:37:25 PM

Colorado

I'm for ABCD. However if you acquire a seed and say your gonna grow it then grow it as in try to sprout it and go with it if it makes a strong seedling. I started about 20 some seeds this year to get 5 good plants.I couldnt go with a few(that I really wanted to try) for bad luck reasons. Worst luck with seedlings ever-thats part of my 2019 season. and I,m going figure out what went wrong this winter so this doesnt happen again.One learns from their screw ups thats why we still dont live in trees and caves.Polls on seed etiquette/really?

6/26/2019 4:53:19 PM

Central NY

Hell, I still have a half dozen 2145’s...and a few 2009’s...

6/26/2019 5:56:31 PM

South Dakota

I guess I equate this to giving a family member some money out of the goodness of your heart, not being asked, just wanting to help them out, then getting pissed off because they didn't spend the money how you thought they should. If the giver has expectations, then those expectation should be revealed prior to the giving. Once given away, the recipient can do whatever they want with the gift. If the giver doesn't approve of the use of the gift, then don't give that person any more gifts.

6/26/2019 6:02:52 PM

Michigan,up North

or its like helping people on a fix income ,till a garden in the hott sun ,and go back a few months later and there garden full of weeds and there tomatoes are rotting on the ground,lol

6/26/2019 6:29:53 PM

Michigan,up North

i would say if your a pumpkin head ,that eat sleep growing pumpkins and save it for next year its ok ,if your saleing it to make a profit your a dirt bag

6/26/2019 6:37:37 PM

Saunders County, NE

D. Free heavy hitter seed should see dirt. It’s an generous gesture. Aunction or trades are completely different IMHO. I guess I’m a sucker, if I communicate with someone about how I appreciated a HD winner or cross I feel bad not growing it. But each their own.

6/26/2019 7:19:18 PM

Bloomington Indiana

"C"

6/26/2019 8:09:43 PM

Streator ,Illinois

Back in the day I had to send a resume to try and get some seeds and I hope we don't get to that point again , I think no strings should be attached to any seed , their is no guarantee the seed will germinate. I think a person that gives seeds freely should just hope they will remember you and your generosity some day
Gene

6/26/2019 10:32:11 PM

Anchorage Alaska

yup I agree with Gene and pumpking guru totally, but if you ask a grower for a seed , saying your going to grow it ,just to get it.. then don't grow it... not right

6/27/2019 12:04:04 AM

Pittsburgh, PA

I always have good intentions to grow what I receive but you can’t grow every seed you receive. Heck I asked Joe House for some seeds and he sent me enough to last 10 years. Haha. If I received a seed from a HH there’s a good chance I will try to germinate it or pass it along to another grower that might want it.

6/27/2019 12:18:34 AM

North Pole,Alaska

There are ALOT of good seeds out there readily available that have more potential than most growers growing them. That isn't meant to put down the growers. There are alot of heavy hitters out there that haven't hit 2000 pounds yet. My point is that you don't climb into a formula 1 car 6 months after you get your drivers license, or feed a ribeye to an 8 year old who'd rather have a hot dog. Sure, everyone wants a real giant to increase their chances, but learning good techniques will get you much further initially. If you do get great seed stock, PLANT IT. Don't cull it because of a slow start. Einstein was considered a failure by his own family even into his early twenties. I'd say he had a pretty strong finish

6/27/2019 12:57:58 AM

Morgantown, WV

I'm at B or C. I'm a "C" level grower according to the tomato challenge, but I do give good effort in the garden each year. That said, I do want my best chances moving forward to increase the likelihood of my hard work paying off.

I used to sprout two seeds for two plants, and go with it. Looking at most of the better growers out there, they will start two or three times the number of seeds than they will plant in the garden, which means good seeds go to the trash every year.

If I contact someone asking for seeds, I will at least sprout them and judge them against the rest. The only seed in my entire garden this year that was not shared with me for the cost of a bubble is the 2416.5 Haist (which I won through my club seminar raffle. That said, other shared seeds were started this spring, and culled for good reasons early on.

6/27/2019 7:10:36 AM

Morgantown, WV

In addition to sprouting the seeds sent, I find it respectful to send a pic or two to the sender of that seed, especially if you're going full season. Not everyone has a diary here, but if you can email to ask for the seed, you should at least be able to follow up with a thank you and a pic.

Also, if I have to promise to put the plant in full season just for you to send it to me, no thank you. There are plenty of good choices that don't force me in a corner, so I will just move to the next seed.

6/27/2019 7:18:17 AM

Central Illinois

I have made plans before to cross seed A to seed B ,I get seed A but not seed B so I save seed A for later

6/27/2019 7:36:05 AM

Johnston, R.I.

I am curious.. What is a premium seed ????

6/27/2019 9:15:37 AM

Bethlehem CT

D for me. If I am going to let two compete they will be of the same seed. I am not necessarily concerned with a slow start. Some of my best were on slow starting or poorly germinating plants.

6/27/2019 9:56:40 AM

Georgia

Norm, in regards to what is a "premium" seed, I think everyone will have their own definition. I would fall back on Justice Stewart's famous statement about how it was difficult to define obscenity but "I know it when I see it."

I was just trying to make a distinction from someone giving out seeds for free that have no general demand versus seeds that would generate a payable interest among the growing community.

6/27/2019 10:26:57 AM

New England

I am stuck between all of the above or none of the above, but I am not a competitive grower like some. If you give seeds away, consider them a gift. If you gave seeds away to the majority of private growers, limited your donations to clubs to sell for big profit, and in the process drained your seed inventory of one of your favorites; I guess that's not much of anyone else's concern?

I agree, those that get these seeds as gifts and turn around to profit on them are dirtbags.

I work with cattle genetics and we sell a lot of cattle embryos. Once the new owner takes possession of those embryos, they can sit in a nitrogen tank for eternity if the owner so wishes. As the owner of the parent animal that the eggs came from, we all want to see those eggs produce winners and high value animals for others who are truly serious about them. It's what keeps the business ticking. But in the majority of cases, that isn't the case and the eggs sit. Same story

I wouldn't expect any grower to grow the seed the year they were given it. Give them 2 or 3 years to put it in the ground. I personally grew a seed this year that was gifted to me in January. Need to remember; You are relying on someone else's time, money, dedication to grow that seed to further your genetic program's game. everyone has a limited amount of time and space to grow and most have aging seeds they still want to grow. Once you hand it over, its up to the receiver to determine the time that is right and when.

6/27/2019 11:26:14 AM

Lodi, California

C. Regardless of stock I'll choose the best plant.

6/27/2019 11:54:27 AM

I would not ask for a seed if I did not intend to grow it that year. It takes time and effort to do the mailing and maybe a person who would have grown it did not get one.

6/27/2019 2:22:55 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

My heart says D, but the realist in me says C. I can’t go with a weak plant while another is double the size in the same time period.

6/27/2019 5:52:57 PM

Marshfield, Ma, USA

I keep it simple. I decide what I want to grow the following season and send a request. In nearly every case the growers send me what I asked for, and usually seeds from some of the other pumpkins they grew.These along with some of my own seeds, typically are the backups. I sent out three requests this year and all are in the patch. I don't collect simply because every year there is a wealth of new opportunities just waiting to be discovered. I'm hoping that I chose the right ones. Thank you for the seeds Mr. Marley, Daletas, and Geddes

6/27/2019 6:50:43 PM

Edmonton, 53.5N, 113.6W

B or C for me.

I only have room for 1 plant and will never grow a world beater in my 200 sq foot patch. I do want to grow a premium seed though. I always start 3 plants, put two in the dirt and then go with one by the start of June.

6/28/2019 12:01:03 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

To go with the heavy hitter plant, whatever that is, over the backup plant when the backup is clearly outgrowing it is ridiculous. Absurd. You’ll never become a heavy hitter yourself making those types of decisions, starting off your season shooting yourself in the foot. You’re talking about what, a couple hundred hours maybe of work ahead of you in a growing season. Some special seed is worth more than that?

6/28/2019 12:37:17 PM

Grittyville, WA

I respect going with genetics above initial growth, because you don't know if that smaller plant has twice as big a root system. There is no perfect judgement of a plant until you make it to the scale. I doubt if any heavy hitters 100% believe a big plant guarantees a big pumpkin. But yes a plant that clearly has an issue should probably get culled. Its the slower ones if they are slower because they are putting energy into large healthy roots, then which do you want to cull?

6/28/2019 3:20:44 PM

North Pole,Alaska

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen anything equating plant size( leaf size, stem diameter, petiole length, internode length, etc.) with pumpkin size potential when talking different genetic backgrounds. If anyone else has, I'd love to read it. With virtually all other vegetables, the very basis of genetic diversity is variation in all aspects of plant growth and size, with no way to accurately determine size potential of any plant part in relation to any other, unless you are dealing with clones. If there was, plant breeding would be SOOO much easier. Early growth vs later growth is yet another variable. I Can't recall a single season in the last 14 years of competitive growing where at least one of my slow starters didn't outdo the rest of it's competition by end of season. Maybe I'm absurd. I may not be a heavy hitter with pumpkins, I believe I qualify as one with multiple other plants by anyone's standards

6/28/2019 3:22:59 PM

Johnston, Iowa

I agree with Smallmouth Luke!

6/28/2019 6:55:29 PM

Colorado

Dave your correct-theres no correlation.

6/28/2019 8:56:08 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

I agree with me as well Dan.

Dave, some of us only grow 1 or 2 plants total. I absolutely see your point if you are growing multiple plants and losing a few spots won’t matter . But in my situation, if I choose wrong and cull a healthy plant just because there is a possibility a lesser, weak plant might catch up later and it doesn’t, my season is over.

6/28/2019 9:28:17 PM

North Pole,Alaska

I have limited space also, and the space I do have is Expen$ive to use way up here. I usually grow 2, a few times 3 pumpkins. I am in a learning curve with pumpkins using aeroponics, and NOBODY ANYWHERE has been fully successful with aeroponics and large, long season plants yet, either. I therefore have always used seedstock from 300-600 lbs below current WR, not wanting to waste top genetics. I start twice as many plants as I plan on growing and cull based on health between siblings. I have an advantage in being able to see the full root structure of each plant. There has ALWAYS been a direct correlation between plant mass and root mass between siblings. There is, however variation between different genetic lines. I believe ???? I've overcome my last few problem areas and plan on trying next year with top genetics, if anyone is willing to donate to someone with a rather poor success rate to date. My PB is only 1231, and I have yet to keep a pumpkin fully healthy full season. It's been a long , long road of discovery

6/28/2019 10:18:21 PM

NE Arkansas

I'm gonna agree with Gene. Take the 2145 for example. I bought 6 at auction the first year. Gene gave me 2. So I had 8. It grew the WR and I live in a environment where I would never get the full potential out of it. I gave the 2 Gene sent me to other growers, Killed one, and sold the others I bought at auction for patch stuff. If I ask for a seed for myself I plan on growing it if possible. If you request melon seeds from me I always send them out. Yes I hope the person grows them but like was said before all seeds aren't the same. They may not germ, or have messed up cots, or be a runt... If I only had one melon spot and germed 5 seeds I'd plant the 2 best and cull one of them.

7/1/2019 11:13:57 PM

stoughton WI

If you ask a grower for a seed, please grow it. Alot of these growers spend alot of time, money and effort to pack up all there seeds. Best of luck to everyone this season.

7/2/2019 6:59:31 PM

Kamloops bc canada

If i was donated a good seed from a top grower i would treat it like the last seed on earth lol. Hope to find me a "proven seed for 2020. Yet to beat 400lb in 3 years of growing but plan to step it up.

7/3/2019 11:33:40 PM