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New York

Hi I have very dense soil it holds lots of water and doesn’t drain well. I was wondering how dry it has to be before i can turn it. Also I only have a shovel to turn so I was planning on digging one layer down putting it to the side then turning an extra layer below it to help it drain. Will that work the problem is I will only be able to do this to my 10x10 hoop house spot and not the rest of the area at first untill the rest dries up. Will the make all the water drain into that spot and make it more wet. Finally is there anything I can add this season that will help drain.

3/30/2019 7:23:25 PM

Syracuse, NY

easy for me to say, since i have a tractor and tiller for it but see if you can find a local farmer that has that setup and if he'll till it up for you you'll save a lot of work for a $20 bill or an extra-large pumpkin for him in October. EVERYONE loves giant pumpkins and are usually excited to help if they can---i hope for you that i'm right;
plus some aged manure? that always helps to loosen up the dirt, and aeration of it is key---eg

3/31/2019 1:50:11 AM

Morgantown, WV

If you're only turning with a shovel, it can be a little wet, that's ok. Breaking it up will actually increase the surface area and allow it to dry a little better. A broadfork is also a useful tool to do similar to what you are wanting to do. They can usually be gotten cheap at a flea market or Craig's list if you are on a budget. They last forever, so as long as the handles are solid, buy a used one. It allows you to break up the soil without having to lift and turn like with the shovel.

The problem in turning wet soil is mostly if using big equipment because compaction is more of an issue. When turning by hand, if your feet are getting stuck in the mud, or it sticks to the shovel, it's too wet.

3/31/2019 8:44:21 AM

Wixom MI.

My area is solid clay and i would not be able to grow anything in it. So i made raised beds 12"-18" high with good garden soil.
You also could put perferated drainage pipe in at the lowest spots and try to drain it away to a lower location in your yard if that is possible.

3/31/2019 10:28:34 AM

Plymouth, MN

Composted manure helped me improve my soil texture. As for turning, I recommend Craigslist. Sure, you can rent a tiller from Home Depot or the like, but I've found that there are guys who will bring their tiller over and do the work for you for about the same price as a days rental.

3/31/2019 11:00:49 AM

On a cliff in the desert

I have my neighbor roto till my patch area for a watermelon or field pumpkin at the end of the season.

3/31/2019 12:38:26 PM

On a cliff in the desert

CJB are you adding turkey manure this year to your patch after the Sustane presentation at the SCGA meeting? That will help your soil texture.

3/31/2019 12:41:35 PM

Deer Park, WI

Adam-

To answer your question directly, when you squeeze a hand full of soil, it should break apart into crumbles. if the soil clump holds its shape after squeezing, its too wet.

As for improving drainage/pore space in heavy clays, the addition of organic matter will help.

The addition of perlite to your planting area will also help create more pore spaces.

Lastly, run a soil test and pay attention to the base saturation percentages. Poorly drained soils are often characterized by relatively higher magnesium base saturation levels and relatively lower calcium base saturation levels. Shooting for 68-70% calcium and less than 15% magnesium can help loosen up the clay. Excessive mag can be flushed out over time with high levels of sulfates, such as those found in gypsum.

3/31/2019 2:05:37 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

A lot depends on the slope of the ground. Can you divert surface runoff around the garden with a ditch? Perforated tile might work if you can get it 2.5' to 3' deep and have enough slope to drain the water away. A French drain, a trench filled with rock with slope to lead the water out will work like tile. Raised beds can help. Maybe a combination of a ditch and raised bed will work for you. I would not try to create a "bowl" effect in clay by digging out an area and filling it with loose material. That will just collect water. Better to build it up than dig it deeper down into the clay and water.

Adding compost and perlite will help, and if the soil is high in clay, gypsum might help. Some people add sand, but it takes a lot of sand. You want more sand than clay or you could just be making bricks. I would add lots of compost with sand.

3/31/2019 2:13:53 PM

New York

Okay thanks for the help. How many inches of compost should I add , it would cost $70 for 1.5 inch over the whole area

3/31/2019 2:17:47 PM

Whidbey Island

How much can you afford?

3/31/2019 7:34:28 PM

New York

I can probably afford enough to get 2 in of cover over the area but would it work if I did more for example 3 in around the stump and less around where I bury vines?

3/31/2019 8:01:04 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

You’ll need to work all that compost into the soil. It takes years to really build up the ideal soil, but all the above are great suggestions.

Maybe look into some of this too (potent liquid gypsum)

http://www.soillogic.com

3/31/2019 9:09:48 PM

New York

Okay thanks I also found this liquid soil aeration thing I was wondering what you think of it and if there is any limit to how much I can use, https://www.amazon.com/Conditioner-Mechanical-Simple-Lawn-Solutions/dp/B071VWCRBD/ref=asc_df_B071VWCRBD/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198106292047&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9603992823046135571&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1023349&hvtargid=pla-350834785335&psc=1

3/31/2019 10:40:21 PM

New York

Here’s the video this stuff is crazy. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8cJW_z4YNJQ

3/31/2019 10:44:22 PM

Syracuse, NY

I would feel bad if i didn't suggest Mycorrhizae---with THAT in the soil, no matter what its content, you'd have the beneficial fungi in many different strains latching onto your roots and extracting the nutrients for them that are THERE to begin with if $$$ is a huge concern; my idea this year is to swap-over to new growing areas, each only about 20 feet from the ones i've been using for 18 years, never having rotated my crops...if NOTHING else, I would apply Bio Grow Endo Plus @ at least 5 pounds per 800 SF growing area for each plant, more if affordable, so that it is in the soil for whenever, and WHEREver the roots from your plant(s) will protrude into the soil.

http://www.hollandsgiants.com/soil.html

I only have about 10 pounds of it myself, and need to order more, pronto. I used to use all that i could in my soil and USED to have EASY 600-plus-pounders every year.
It's been downhill since then but for the 912.5 i had in '06. 20-20-20 granular at 5 lbs. per 100 SF (i don't even remember, lol!) and Ironite, Mycorrhizae, cow manure probably still with the cow's name on it, lol, etc...but, BIGGER pumpkins back then. Ahhh, the memories.
MYCORRHIZAE.
Also look into WOW Wallace Organic Wonder products,
they must have a Myco-Menu as well---later---eric g

3/31/2019 10:52:24 PM