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Auburn Maine, USA

Mr. Wallace mentioned while in chat about a week ago that if you use Mycorrhizal, dont use Miracle Grow potting soil because it kills the fungi, or atleast thats what I got out of this. Does anyone agree with this, and if so, what would you suggest to use as a starting mix?????

3/5/2007 6:15:32 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Randalls, look 3 posts down....starting mix....I think the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 mix will work okay with the Myco....or any sterilized starting mix. I am not sure, but assume it is the ferts(prbly the phos) in the Miracle Grow, that don't go well with the Myco. Peace, Wayne
PS....Prbly cheaper too!!!

3/5/2007 6:29:40 PM

President - GPC

I have researched alot this year on Myco and the soil food web.. After reading all that info my take on using chem ferts changed quite a bit......No chems higher that 10 this year for me.....seems the critters in the soil are the key to whats going on......to prove it I let my wife take over all the house plants this last year.....she doses them once a month with a gallon of miracle grow......most of the plants now are looking quite poor, several have died, salts at the bottom of the pots......The Myco benefits the plants so the need for inducing chemical dependancies are not necessary......guess the research has changed my mind plenty on chemical ferts.....Go organic see if your plants show a diff.....

3/6/2007 9:30:31 AM

Taylorsville, California

Check out the documentary "My fathers garden", its a great film on organic farming. After years of organic gardening and seeing friends using chems there is really no comparison in plant and soil health. chems kill beneficial microbes, myco, good bugs, worms and leave huge ammounts of salts as well as leaving huge mineral defficiencies and actually changing the mollecular structure of the soil. Basically poison randalls, thats my take, you might get good results from chems like miracle gro for a year or 2 but then your soil will be s**t! GROW ORGANIC! good luck, Auston

3/6/2007 12:16:20 PM

southwest MO

Randalls,
I missed the chat... Still waiting for the transcript... You will probablly see me begging Ken D soon lol! Beggars cant be chosers!
If you have already bought the mix with added salts there are a couple things you can do... Throw that bag in the patch and spread or till it in, and get a new bag of potting soil whith out the continuous feeding. It will just be sterile starting mix or potting mix. You can also soak the mix in water for a bit to get it good and saturated then try to squeeze and leach out the salts...Or you can just dilute it... Maybe a 1/3 sand and a 1/3 compost in with it... Or just wait to put your innoculant in the ground all around the plant when you transplant. I think the recomendation though is to use it right in the starting container.
My salts where so high last year just from adding too much manure that was too fresh that Im sure I didnt do the Mycorrhizae favors!! It was 6.35 MILLI uhoms, not micro!! Your dirt can get out of balance fast...

3/6/2007 2:22:14 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Yes, I agree totally. Ron is one of the best pumpkin specific soil guys we have. His statements are correct. I have found several studies and examples that high phos ppm is detemental to Mycorrhizae servival and thrivablity. This is science fact...

3/6/2007 9:05:03 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Agreed. There is absolutely no good reason to use a "fertilizer fortified" seed starting mix. The seeds come loaded with all of the carbohydrate stored energy that they'll need to get going. The fertilizer might be strong enough to damage mycorrhyza & it may also foster pythium & other seedling root rots.

3/6/2007 11:30:07 PM

Auburn Maine, USA

With that said about phosphorus, does that mean that spraying with artificial ferts would be bad for the mycorrhyza, doing more harm than good? I plan on using Neptunes seaweed/fish and probably vigor-cal and plan on brewing some tea anyways, but it would be good to keep in mind. Does anyone know if mycorrhyza survives the winter, if it stays somehow in the soil?

3/7/2007 5:04:22 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Randalls, The general answer to your first question would be possibly. I you spray ferts to the point of runoff then yes you are possibly doing harm to Mycorrhizae, especially if you are applying high Phos.

Organics such as you have described are of little concern.

Research studies have led most to believe that Calcium applied foliar is of little value IMO.

You don't generally need supplemental ferts if your soil is far above the natural background OM for your area. There is usually plenty of nitrogen harvested from OM in the soil by the beneficial's to supply good growth. Any more and you often risk runaway plants that produce lots of green growth and are difficult to set pumpkins on. Another draw back is the increased chances of BES.

Some research to-date suggest that survivability of endomycorrhizal fungi in cold temperatures increases with the presence of roots left in the ground undisturbed over the winter months. I haven't researched this topic extensively. I know that Jack LaRue is following a no-till regime which seams to be working well for him. The undisturbed part seams to be the key.

3/7/2007 7:15:02 PM

Coventry R.I.

randall, i was there, thats exactaly what ron said, they have a promix, that they use.

3/12/2007 6:26:43 PM

San Jose garysand@pacbell.net

we had a phd talk to us this weekend, he said that the spores do survive , they have been around millions of years, and they are more than likely in your soil to some extent. He also said they will be more abundant if the roots are left in the ground, that is where they do there thing. There are different types of myco, we are looking for endo.

It cannot hurt to "fortify" your soil with more myco

The Dr also said it should be good for two years, but he said not to seal the bag, let it breathe.

I bought some more this year, i will be putting in the original potting soil, and use till it runs out, then use last years batch for the rest of the secondaries

3/20/2007 8:37:34 PM

Auburn Maine, USA

thanks guys. Folks sure can learn alot from these forums.

3/22/2007 6:45:45 PM