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Ely Mn

I grew my 8.41 on the first truss.
How high up were some of the bigger ones?
Thinking about growing some up higher this year.

2/10/2018 4:18:50 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

Good question Dan...I don't grow big..but in my indoor grow hydro and aero- I can see root development as compared to foliage and fruit development. I have such a hard time keeping the plants healthy that first truss works well for me. Outdoors..i do not know what might be best. Setting first truss...it seems like the roots are about at 25% of their of their eventual development when it first sets. So the beginning stages..roots keep growing along with the fruit. I know that I tend to get best blossoms from first truss, but is it at the expense of a developed root system. I am just mr 3 pounder...so I don't know what the right answer is.

2/10/2018 4:34:56 PM

Central NY

Stick yer arm out to yer side....then bend your elbow as far in as you can....twirl finger...that's the spot here in ny when growing outside...

2/10/2018 5:22:29 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

Nipple height Porkchop?

2/10/2018 5:38:33 PM

Central NY

That’s right ...down south where it’s Warner earlier ?...or warm in a greenhouse?...dans proven early goes big...but what if Dan goes higher?...are we looking at 9,10,11lbs?,...too bad he screwed up his soil to grow a jacko-latern....

2/10/2018 6:14:45 PM

Ely Mn

Lol....never again!no soil test.just a little of this and a little of that :)

2/10/2018 6:26:13 PM

Central NY

Yup...stick to the plan...don’t hope it happens ...make it happen....

2/10/2018 6:30:48 PM

Wixom MI.

Porkchop grows them nipple high because his excitement always knocks them off at waist high !!! :-)

2/10/2018 6:38:24 PM

Lebanon, Oregon

Yes Dad, your 8.41, 6.88 were down low. Do you think you were able to do that because of a large root system? Were they put in the ground at the small seedling stage?

My 6.02, 6.06 were up high. Jack LaRue's 6 + 7 pounders high. Dan Sutherland said his were up high, Porkchops up high. I can produce great flowers down low but they lack something that puts them over 5 lbs. I am tempted to let them go higher this year. The only thing I can think that would be common between your 8.41, 6.88 grown low and others grown high is a large root system? I don't know.

2/10/2018 6:45:01 PM

Central NY

Lmao wixom!

2/10/2018 6:48:34 PM

Ely Mn

Who's your Daddy here.....
The 6.88 was is way early.like just the first true leaf.the 8.41 was about a month old probly.I really don't know other than they really liked my soil...lol

2/10/2018 7:00:59 PM

Wixom MI.

Dad MacCoy lol Reb

2/10/2018 7:02:36 PM

Ely Mn

Ha!

2/10/2018 8:17:33 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

I’ve always gone high because I never had good flowers on the first truss.
Last year I had a monster of a bloom on a ribbon vine on Wixoms 4.80.
Plant couldn’t have been more than 30 inches tall.
Lost the blossom to the heat.
Every thing else has always been around 4 feet.

2/10/2018 8:39:43 PM

Central NY

What was wixoms 4.8?...big zac?

2/10/2018 8:55:22 PM

Wixom MI.

The 4.80 was from the wixom slammer cross. Porkchop 7.05 bigzac X porkchop 5.75 Domingo

2/10/2018 9:02:50 PM

Lebanon, Oregon

Whoops! Big Daddy Dan.

2/10/2018 9:06:11 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

my best indoor right now is at 17 inches tall 19.5 inches cc...4 feet with 2 feet of bucket puts the top of my canopy right next to the bulb. I think I need to stick with first truss indoors...give me time..I think i can keep up with the outdoor plants indoors.

2/10/2018 9:58:39 PM

Buffalo, MN (Billsbigpumpkins@hotmail.com)

Dan, my 6.63 and 5.84 were grown off the first truss and had to be held off the ground. the 7.10 was grown approx. 2 1/2 feet off the ground. Much easier to work on.
Dan your basement is starting to look like Bnot's.
Bill

2/10/2018 10:37:01 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

wixom..i think my 3.77 wixom-slammer has better genetics potential than the 4.8. my indoor hydro contest last year of the 4.8 konieczny, 4.24 spaziani and the 3.77 had the clear winner..the 3.77. It is hard to compare tomato potential with grower skill differences. Obviously last 2 summers ago..both chris and rick had more skill than I. But in equal care the 3.77 came out ahead. It grew 3.02 in a 40 gallon bucket last summer..even though I gave it a killing ratio of nutrients. So far indoors...I havent seen the gotta grow me look yet in the 3.02 starts...reasonable megas..but not killer...i think next round of wixom slammer for me will be back to 3.77. These are low F numbers...it takes awhile to find the best combo.

2/10/2018 11:07:10 PM

Wixom MI.

Ya the slammer was the most tried and the least successful of all my crosses! You can give these seeds to 100 different people and at the end you never know if the biggest ones were due to genetics or skill of grower ???

2/11/2018 10:25:39 AM

Wixom MI.

I guess what i am saying that a good grower can make a bad seed look good and and an average grower can't do anything with the best seed ??? Very difficult to tell if a seed is genetically better than another ??? Everyone gravitates to the higher weight numbers over genetic potential ??? 3 years ago i planted all the top seeds. The best MacCoys the best Foss the best timm and the best meisner seeds 80 % bigzac and at the end the 5.51 megamarv was almost one pound heavier than the rest !!! So thats why i now focus on veriety over weight # !!!

2/11/2018 10:39:12 AM

Oak Grove, Mn

I planted 70 most of the top ever weighed tomatoes last summer. Obviously I am not a very good grower. It was interesting to see the compare the plant characteristics. These tomatoes were planted so late that had no choice but to go for first truss set. My indoor has to be first truss because of height. With time..i might have to try different places to set, and how much new growth to stop. What works best might depend on variety and even differences in strains between the varieties. How complicated can things get..there might be more than one method depending on situation.

2/11/2018 10:48:22 AM

Wixom MI.

For me the Delicious veriety was dead last. Just couldn't get a megabloom to take on that veriety.

2/11/2018 10:48:35 AM

Valencia Spain

Hey Bob do delicous produce megablooms on first trudd

2/11/2018 12:24:52 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

yes, they do james..my 3.79 grown from the 7.33 Hunt was set on first truss...I happen to like the Delicious variety. If i ever get my planned Delicious-Brutus Magnum cross complete I would wonder how that would do in Wixoms Domingo soil.

2/11/2018 1:12:52 PM

Bloomington, IN USA

My biggest fruits have been nipple high or slightly higher, which I attribute to a stronger root system.

Bnot, you said you got the curlies on some of your indoor plants.
Which nutrients did that for you?
N, P or K?

2/11/2018 1:21:43 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

i have tried it with a few different ratio's...i know that low N extreme high P and extreme high K will do it. I need to try it again and just see if just one of the three.will cause an effect. My 4.38 seeds seem to respond at much lower level than rest of the seeds I have tried it with. I am not precise but I think the technique could have future value. I expect to lose a few more plants experimenting. The rest of my experimentation might have to wait until next winter. I haven't come up with a way this would work in soil. Is it possible to do a nutrient overload for just a short time in soil other than foliar?

2/11/2018 3:38:43 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

Interesting Wixom...many of your crosses have your pb of the year. my pb of 2016 was 3.77 wixom-slammer..pb of 2017 was megamuttD ...maybe we should start to focus on what tomatoes grew the pb of the grower if they planted more than one variety. That might compensate for grower skill level.

2/11/2018 6:34:34 PM

valparaiso, in

I have never been able to get any tomatoes on the first truss to take. Mine are always 4'+ above ground. Keep in mind that I plant my tomatoes a foot to a foot and a half underground. Maybe I need to not do that this year? I might give that a try on some of them.

2/11/2018 7:40:49 PM

Wixom MI.

If i only focused on planting the top weight tomatoes every year i may have never tried any other verieties because Bigzac is about 85% of all tomatoes grow and i would still be the original mr 3 pounder !!! :-)

2/11/2018 7:55:29 PM

Wixom MI.

Who would have thought that my two bigest tomatoes 6.23 and 6.13 came from a tomato that i grew in my bacement to only 9oz.

2/11/2018 8:05:47 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

wow..your basement one beat my .87 by .03 . Crunching the numbers...my .87 should break 6.02 when it gets outside...Ooops checked it out...i just looked, not that much hope..i just look what I entered wixom on the tgtg.com Your 6.23 weighed 1.2 pounds which is 19.2 oz...what an ugly looking tomato :)

2/11/2018 8:29:00 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

oops..not wixom...megazac

2/11/2018 8:30:02 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

never mind corrections...going to bed

2/11/2018 8:30:37 PM

Wixom MI.

Gritch hot tall are your plants to be able to plant them 12"+ deep ?
To get a first truss flower to work you only wont a plant to have 2-3 true leaves or 2"-4" tall.any bigger that that the roots will be to wound up in a pot to suport that first truss tomato.

2/11/2018 8:36:04 PM

Wixom MI.

Your right bnot i mixed it up with my other crosses.

2/11/2018 8:38:04 PM

Wixom MI.

The 5.24 lb Borgers also came from a 6oz.Tomato i believe ??? I don't remember if i even recorded the weight ?

2/11/2018 8:57:29 PM

Ely Mn

Gritch
I agree with Wixom.
Try starting some of your seeds a little later and plant them just up to the first true leaves.
That way your plant is going to get all your soil nutrients and not get root bound to get your first trust set.

2/11/2018 10:00:35 PM

valparaiso, in

The plants are normally a foot and a half when I plant them outside, and I just bury them down to the leaves.

2/12/2018 1:48:43 AM

Oak Grove, Mn

I have sent many 5.24 seeds outs...looked at how it is listed on tgtg it shows link grown from Megamutt D. Do you think we should expand that?

2/12/2018 9:35:18 AM

Wixom MI.

Gritch what you are doing will only work for the nipple high meathod.with what you are doing you probably have planted past the True first flower truss !!! You have burried the first true flower truss with your meathod. What me and dan are doing is planting a 2" seedling that is only 2-3 weeks old from seed and planting that tiny seedling in the ground so that it has developed a strong root system before the very first true flower truss developes !!! What we have found is that the very first flower truss is often the biggest megabloom the plant may ever have !!! If you start inside to early and have plants 6"-8" tall then it is probably to late to grow a first truss tomato.

2/12/2018 10:09:39 AM

Wixom MI.

That site is not friendly to my android phone right now i will have to check it on my computer later ???

2/12/2018 10:18:20 AM

Lebanon, Oregon

That's exactly it Chris and Dan. You have to be on top of your game from when you start your seeds and be all set up to put the seedlings in the ground when young. That is the key. I tried last year but one day ran into the next and I was a couple of weeks late. This year that won't happen. Those early flowers don't divide the way they should. You should see more of them if you put them in the garden young and don't plant deep. That is best for eating tomatoes though.

2/12/2018 10:18:52 AM

Central NY

Just remember the 8.22 was planted like gritch does..(different variety though )....no matter what, like rebel said, healthy from start to finish...that def means no cold feet...I think these plants could grow a world record on any truss...

2/12/2018 10:32:28 AM

Buffalo, MN (Billsbigpumpkins@hotmail.com)

Gritch if you haven't done so already would you carefully dig out one of your plants you planted a foot and half deep at the end of the season and post a pic of the root system. Also take a pic at the beginning of your planting hole and how deep the roots go into it. I looking to verify some testing I did a few years back that showed that most of the roots were very near the surface.

2/12/2018 10:43:59 AM

Lebanon, Oregon

My plants were young when I planted them but could of been younger. They developed the first truss of flowers. Most had megablooms. Most developed, but only grew 2-4.5 lbs. I topped them. If the plants were planted a few weeks younger those first flowers may of been over 5 lbs. Some plants I let grow that did not have the megablooms at first. Their root systems developed. Waist to chest high some 2-3 fused tomatoes developed. By then the plant had a huge root system. My 6 lbs+ occurred at chest height. By the 2nd truss the plant really starts taking off. Flowers split correctly and you usually don't get the most massive flowers.

2/12/2018 12:32:07 PM

Lebanon, Oregon

Last year I noticed on the first branch or sucker of the plant, they too developed the largest flowers. Some took. The plant can be larger then. That sucker will become the "new top" and I hack the rest of the plant away, main stem and remaining suckers. Like PC said it can happen anywhere. I think the key is a large root system when that flower is pollinated. No more early starts and transplanting to a garden with a root bound plant in the pot. Later starts, young in the ground, keep the soil warm with protection.

2/12/2018 12:35:58 PM

Wixom MI.

A few years back i did the lay the stem down and burried about 10" of the stem and at the end of the year when i dug upp the plant i noticed that the roots up the stem took over and became the dominant roots and the original main roots almost stoped growing not much biger than they were when i layed it down !!! So in theory this idea sounds great in my opinion i dont think i really gained much !!!

2/12/2018 1:11:54 PM

Wixom MI.

I would see the same thing rebel on my eating tomatoes the fifsr truss flowers on the main stem and the first truss flowers on the lowest branches by the ground would always give me my biggest megablooms. After that it was much harder to get that monster megabloom.

2/12/2018 1:17:05 PM

Buffalo, MN (Billsbigpumpkins@hotmail.com)

Chris, I purposely planted a tomato plant and when it got a two feet high I put two truck tires around it and I filled them with soil. Maybe got about a 3lb tomato but when I pulled the plant at the end of the season I would have to say that the original roots stopped growing and a whole new set of roots started an inch to three inches under the soil. The last couple of years I have planted tomatoes in a 3x8 feet and 3 feet high raised bed and they seem to have a main root that runs over three feet several inches under the soil level. Is it warmth, air or moisture they seek?

2/12/2018 3:41:15 PM

Wixom MI.

http://bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=248490

Here is a picture of a tomato root that i exposed in 2015 it was over 6 feet long and only about 2" below the surface. So i think that most of the roots are closer to the surface than most people think !!!

2/12/2018 5:03:15 PM

Central NY

Show em roots bnot ....

2/12/2018 5:39:22 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

i am not rootbound in 13 gallons yet..porkchop. I know roots can form differently..depending on environment. roots are intrigueing..if you can watch them grow.

2/12/2018 6:45:11 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

i looked at wixoms picture...you are only showing a very small of the root system..how many trichoblasts do you have. From what I can tell..the big roots are just a transportation channel...the real eaters are the trichoblasts. I could be wrong..but I am thinking the plant will make big channels...if it cant get enough nutrients in an area to feed from. My aeroponic has 0 big roots it is a fluff ball..dwc hydroponic...big roots to the nutrient solution where the root structure feathers to an herribone pattern. I like indoor growing.

2/12/2018 6:55:15 PM

Wixom MI.

Ya it seems like a root system in the ground is quite different than that in a hydro system.

2/12/2018 7:21:52 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I might try my buried 55 gallon drum hydroponic again next summer...would have to figure out what went wrong and make corrections. How high to set...hydroponically?

2/12/2018 7:31:15 PM

valparaiso, in

BillF I am not sure I am going to plant them that deep anymore. It would sure be a shame if what wixom said about me possibly burying the first truss. Will have to see closer to planting time.

2/13/2018 10:52:07 PM