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Oak Grove, Mn

The tomato board is been way to quiet. I think my biggest weakness in growing big tomatoes is soil-hydro-aeroponic nutrient balance. Searching on the internet I get 100 different answers for the best mix. I am wondering...the Langley soil calculator works great for pumpkins. Do tomatoes desire a little different blend?

12/4/2017 7:30:35 PM

Virginia

I was wondering how soon before you start to give the seedlings some certs?

12/4/2017 7:47:31 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I do not know if i have the right answer. On my indoor soil, I have been starting to add liquid nutrients about the time they have their second truss. I have been starting in a quite potent original potting mixture with added earthworm castings and humus. It seems if i add liquid nutes before this time i curl all the new growth. In the hydro plants, I have been starting them out at about 600 ppm of nutrients and slowly increase that. If i go slow enough i dont curly top the plants. I really wish I knew the N-P-K-Ca-S-micro ratios for optimum growth.

12/4/2017 8:11:22 PM

Virginia

I have a big 20 gallon pot that I layered top soil, peat moss, dunkles, and promix. Hopefully when the roots hit each layer they are well fed. Also hitting with a light fish fertilizer that's very weak, but will increase strength as the plant grows. Tell me if I'm on the right track or not bnot.

12/4/2017 8:34:43 PM

Walla Walla Wa.

Bobc-my opinion is that you are going to have drainage problems with the top soil in there, water in pots acts different than in the ground, it will not flow on out and drain properly, it lodges in the bottom 1/3 of the pot.

12/4/2017 8:43:33 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I will agree with how soil in pots reacts different...I use a soil moisture meter...I stick my finger in and it feel drier than the sahara desert. I sink a 6 inch probe in and it shows 9.9 on a scale of ten for moisture. In the past year...i have gone from relying on my finger to the moisture probe...i only add liquid when the number gets below 3.5. I have actually experimented and gone longer...seeing where the leaves start to yellow from dehydration....your finger is not a good indicator...they need to be way drier than you think.

12/4/2017 9:16:42 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

i am thinking that fish fertilizer is very high in Nitrogen. That should push leaf foliage. Phosphorous should push roots. I feel bad..because I do not know what I am doing, but I am thinking that potasium is most important. From what I have read, potassium is very high in tomatoes..so it seems to me that the soil should be high in potassium. The problem is...potassium restricts calcium..ie blossom end rot. I posted this thread hoping for some answers...maybe I wont get answers but maybe some discussion of what we should be trying for.

12/4/2017 9:45:02 PM

Walla Walla Wa.

You've got to have a high rate of mineralization happening and the only way to do that is to have a healthy population of microriazims going.the fish fert is as bnot said high in nitrogen, so go sparingly on it.I think most growers tend to overdo nitrogen, it's easy to do.

12/4/2017 10:15:45 PM

Nd

could you use urea-mate to feed plants in hydro solution?

12/4/2017 10:36:32 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

What you do will depend on where you grow. If you are growing in a pot you will get very little breakdown of organic matter as the bacterial count, worms etc will be quite low. You need to continually add nutrients almost every time you water in dilute amounts. The plants will essentially get only what you feed them. If you are growing in the ground then most of your nutrients will come from the breakdown of organic material in the soil provided you have added some to your soil. With lots of organic matter present you will be trying to make up any difference between what you get from breakdown and what the plants actually need. What they need will depend on where the plants are in their life cycle. At the beginning of the season they need more nitrogen and phosphorous where as later in the year they need more potassium. Consider something like 10-20-10 early and 10-10 40 toward the end of the season. Higher phosphate early and higher potassium later as the tomatoes develop. I make my switch after the tomatoes are on the vine. When the blossoms are getting pollinated, hold off on any fertilizer as nitrogen has a negative effect on blossoms getting pollinated and fertilized. Hope this helps you. Also whatever fertilizer you use, 10-10-10 etc, make certain there are micronutrients added. As an example, Miracle Grow has added micronutrients. Things like foliar feeding with Uncle Dunkels also helps with the micronutrients. These are the basics and you will have to figure out what routine you feel comfortable with. It all begins with soil preparation and the presence of lots of organic matter in the soil.

12/5/2017 5:08:30 AM

Team Canuckle Heads

From what I've read lactobacillus will break down the organic matter and make N and P available to the plants.

12/5/2017 10:13:27 AM

Oak Grove, Mn

Marv, your suggestions for fertilizer is to soil that would already have pre-existing nutrient potential. In my hydroponic tanks, i think a 1-2-1 ratio followed by a 1-1-4 is not optimum. If you were growing in hydro..what n-p-k ratio would you try if you could set any ratio and then adjust the strength by changing the ppm levels in solution. I know of one hydro company advertising nutrients at 4-18-39. I convert it to N being 1 that makes the ratio 1-4.5-9.75. Here is the link to their product and suggested feeding schedules.

https://hydro-gardens.com/product/tomato-formula-2gal-pail-4-18-38-2/

disclaimer...i do not use this product

12/5/2017 6:11:09 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

Bcbf, thanks for suggesting Ureamate. It is interesting that the ratio of ureamate is similar to chem-gro formula. Ureamate is 5-10-27 which reduces to a ratio of 1-2-5.4. It is about 1/2 the increasing n^p^k numbers of chem-gro.

12/5/2017 6:30:40 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Bnot: I know little to nearly nothing about growing hydroponically but if I had to make a guess I would try for something close to 1-2-1 followed by 1-1-2. If there is too little nutrient in the water that would be no good but if there is a little to much would that really matter. I would go with more than less. But that is only my guess. I am assuming that you are also giving the plants some micronutrients. I will look at the feeding schedules but anything I say will only be a guess. I think for giant tomatoes I would start by increasing the amount of P by 25% in the first phase and then drop it back and increase K by 25% when the tomatoes are on the vine. If all does not go as well as you like then I would keep increasing the P early and the K late. My thoughts. My guess. If you get enough growing seasons under your belt you will probably figure it out. Sorry I could not be a bigger help but I have no hydroponic experience. Another idea would be to call the guy in charge of the hydroponic gardens at Disney World as they are growing some big stuff there. Couldn't hurt. Guys growing commercially have to worry about costs as they are in a business. You are not.

12/5/2017 9:23:30 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Bnot' I looked at the schedules and I would be flying blind if I made any suggestions regarding how much of what to use and when. I think the best thing would be to follow their recommendations or maybe a little more and see what happens. You can always give them more if you are not satisfied with how they are doing. Long ago I grew some lettuce hydroponically for experience but that was long ago.

12/5/2017 9:38:41 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

Thank you Marv for your input. For comparison, I calculated the reduced NPK ratio of the two brands of hydro nutrients I am trying. The first is General Hydroponics 3 part Flora series. This is one of the most popular hydro nutrient line. The vary the mixing rate of the parts based on growth stage. The reduced ratios are: vegetative growth 2-1-3, transition to bloom 1.2-1-1.8, flower 1-1.3-1.6

The other nutrient line I am trying in aeroponic is Dutch Master Gold series. Their vegetative mix is 2-1-3. Their flowering ratio comes out to 1-1.6-1.8. The ratio for both of these products are similar. Unfortunately it might be calculated as being optimum for growing medicinal plants. Much different that the company that is marketing a formula aimed for commercial tomato growers with a ratio of 1-4.5-9.75.

12/6/2017 5:55:54 AM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Might be best to use the General Hydroponics first two parts, for vegetative and transition to bloom stages, and then switch to the commercial growers mix (1-4.5-9.75) for the final phase as it is higher in K. K is very important for the final fruit phase and for commercial growers it gives the tomatoes better shelf life. K is needed for the development of the actual tomato. In the tomato phase almost enerything I have read says you need the extra K. Let me know what you decide and how it works out.

12/6/2017 10:12:29 AM

Oak Grove, Mn

Thank you again for your help Marv. I ordered some chem-gro today. To do a side by side comparison,I will have to split the buckets to separate reservoirs. I do not know if I will get that done this round, but certainly will be in the plans for future grows. I should have three tomatoes set in soil by this weekend. I am going to pick one plant and push really heavy K. I won't know how much is too much, until i push the limit.

12/6/2017 2:58:57 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Do it.

12/6/2017 7:35:46 PM