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Chapel Hill, NC

What is the advantage of grafting these watermelons over just planting the seed and letting it grow on it's own rootstock? Other than better disease resistance is there anything else? Heavier fruit?

8/30/2016 2:47:30 PM

Bethlehem CT

That is a great question. I know the last two world records were grafted. Other than that I don't really know of any others.

8/31/2016 6:59:12 AM

Chapel Hill, NC

Well it would make sense that if you grafted to a plant that grows a bigger root system the fruit would theoretically have a better chance of growing huge.

8/31/2016 8:44:49 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Sorta thinkin, that the increased root system is why the grafting thing is done...more roots, more supply to pump up the fruit (melon)! ie...grafting to an AG root stock (btw..not possible as far as I know) would produce a CC that would weigh approx. 800#'s!!!LOL Peace. Wayne

9/2/2016 12:38:49 AM

Bethlehem CT

I have done a melon to an AG before. The plant was phenomonal and was the fastest grower in the patch for the first month and a half, then it shut down. So I would agree with Wayne that the AG is not really compatible to the melon for grafting. It is just too vigorous.

9/2/2016 6:53:36 AM

Chapel Hill, NC

ag? cc?

9/2/2016 7:03:23 AM

Liberty nc

Atlantic giant pumpkin to Carolina cross watermelon

9/2/2016 8:15:45 AM

Liberty nc

Big moon did it shut done because of disease issues?

9/2/2016 11:08:14 AM

Bowdon, GA

Too big of a root stock = rotten stump and a big 25 day old melon

9/2/2016 1:40:15 PM

Home of happy lil plants

i had a biggish 25day old black diamond this year never feel safe even with a long gourd as rootstock

9/2/2016 4:10:16 PM

Bethlehem CT

Jake that is exactly what happened!

9/3/2016 7:29:05 AM

Bethlehem CT

Grafting is interesting, many times with trees, you are able to make a graft that will last for several years but eventually there will be a huge size difference right at the graft union. When that occurs the tree will often just blow over in a breeze. So when grafting it is important to look at graft compatibility for the long haul.

9/3/2016 7:33:11 AM

Bowdon, GA

Nearly everyone I have talked to said that the ones that failed did so when the melon was 25-30days old. The one time I tried grafted plants mine fell in that range too. It don't take long from first leak to no stump.

9/3/2016 3:08:11 PM

sevierville, Tn

i have also had them fail around day 50. so there is a 2nd failure window. so thats the problem with the grafts, the biggest dap 25 or even dap 50 won't even put you in the top 10 if you can't finish them. But if you get a good one, well thats the lure ! :)

9/3/2016 5:17:06 PM

Chapel Hill, NC

I hear people talk of using shintosa line stocks but where do you get these seeds or rootstocks from? I look them up online and all I see is websites with Japanese writing and university research abstracts.

9/4/2016 8:08:23 AM

Bethlehem CT

Years ago I got some shintosa camelforce seed from Tennessee Dreamer, he had to buy bulk from somewhere in order to get them. Maybe he will chime in.

9/4/2016 2:41:11 PM

Chapel Hill, NC

http://www.neseed.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=1415

I did find these. No idea how well they would work.

9/4/2016 5:56:13 PM

Bethlehem CT

Wow! Complete resistance to fusarium! I may just grow grafts next year.

9/5/2016 7:50:26 AM

Bowdon, GA

Isn't that a squash?

9/5/2016 1:01:45 PM

The North Coast

Good morning. I will give my thoughts on this in an attempt to keep people from making the mistakes that cut their season short. There has been a lot of failure with grafting and I know it all too well but out of these failures a better way forward is shown. The biggest issue has to do with the stump starting to ooze then rots out. After having some great minds tell me that this issue was gummy stem blight, the problem's cause was much more simple. The vigor of the rootstock damages the watermelon scion at the point above the graft union. This damage causes the watermelon to exude the amber ooze as a result. The majority of the first generation of grafts were all on the super vigorous line of Shintosa. Shintosa is a interspecific cross between a pumpkin and a squash that would not happen freely in nature. It is a beast and is the most used rootstock for open field production. However, this vigor in combination with the high fertility of our gardens is just too much for Carolina Cross to handle. All squash rootstocks should only be use as experimental. It is really not a good match for what we are looking for. The second most used rootstock is Lagenaria. The 350 was grown on Lagenaria and I can say with a good deal of certainty that the Bartoli melons were grafted to lagenaria as well. Lagenaria is not used in open field but is used in low tunnel production, typically used in Asia. Talking to people who know, they say that Lagenaria does not alter the vigor level of the plant. Instead, lagenaria is used to keep vines healthy longer and for increased fruit quality. The wild nature of Lagenaria allows it to perform better, for longer, in a greater amount of soil types.

9/6/2016 8:14:40 AM

The North Coast

Also, worth a mention is C. ficifolia. This rootstock is not commonly used but it did grow a Tennessee grower's personal best at 228 with no stump problems. I suspect that c. ficifolia does not impart higher vigor also. C. ficifolia is sold by Johnnys as 'Triumph'. Laginaria rootstock seeds are a challenge to find being sold. I received mine straight from Japan but long gourds are lagenaria and are nearly genetically identical to commercial lagenaria rootstocks.

As for grafting technique everybody is a little different and it is fun to hear of the stories how other growers get it done. I started out using the hole insertion technique and it is rather easy. Recently the single cot method is seen as better due to 100% of the rootstock being in contact with 100% of the watermelon during the healing process. This method is thought to have good vascular alignment when compared to other techniques. As for healing conditions, start with viewing the University of Arizona videos on their healing chamber. You will need to adapt that concept to your situation.

In conclusion, for lack of anything better use long gourd. Single cot method is preferred by some growers with grafting experience. Healing conditions can be learned about via the internet. If you want any more juicy, fresh off the presses information on grafting I would recommend getting your feelers out there and contact growers who now produce their own grafts. Information on technique is most often exchanged between friends. So buddy up and get your learning cap on. Good luck.

9/6/2016 8:15:11 AM

sevierville, Tn

I agree 100% with the above by Nathan. Thanks Nathan.

9/6/2016 2:00:14 PM

Bethlehem CT

Nate, What do you think of bushel gourd as a rootstock?

9/6/2016 5:52:58 PM

The North Coast

Bushel gourd is lagenaria. All lagenaria are a primitive African plants that are used to heat and competition in their environment. Even Chris's caveman seeds may work fine.

9/6/2016 6:39:18 PM

Bowdon, GA

I think Nathan has it figured out. Also, wonder why Chris grew the cave man seeds? HMM

9/6/2016 6:56:06 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

we know the secret now !

9/6/2016 9:02:07 PM

sevierville, Tn

quiet Jake, everyone will know.

9/6/2016 10:38:01 PM

sevierville, Tn

Important note here.... all that Nathan says is true, BUT the flip side is that not all plants will make it or produce winners. With nongrafted its like 95% will finish. With grafted its 40-75 % . I have had many failures along with my winners. It kinda brings the melons into the pumpkin range.
here are my stats. win is being defined as better than i would have expected with a nongrafted. example, if i end up with a 231 melon i don't think thats pass as i could do that with nongrafted.

2012 = 0/1
2013 = 1/2 the 1 was the WR
2014 = 1/5 and the 1 was barely
2015 = 2/6
2016 = we will see

9/6/2016 10:47:31 PM

sevierville, Tn

fail could also be a 100 lb melon with a blown stump at day 25

9/6/2016 10:49:00 PM

NE Arkansas

Nate when you talk about the hole insertion graft... are you cutting the rootstock off also or leaving the rootstock completely intact?

9/7/2016 2:28:14 PM

The North Coast

The interspecific squash rootstock does root easily during the healing process. I was not able to get Lagenaria to root as easily as Shintosa. Even used a gel rooting hormone to help the rootstock out and eventually it took. However, the watermelon scion felt the affects of the rooting hormone also. The melon started to root and soon the graft went bad. Since then I have always used small cups to start my rootstock (started 7-9 days before the melon). They stay in the small cup until the graft heals.

9/7/2016 7:00:36 PM

Bethlehem CT

In 2012 I grew a row of Mountain Hoosiers on grafts. I just planted them and then let them grow over mulch hay. The yield was amazing.

9/7/2016 7:42:57 PM

Grant, AL

Chris, how many grafts are you growing this year and have you had any fail so far this year?

9/7/2016 9:22:58 PM

sevierville, Tn

i have 6 grafts this year.
3 stumps are perfect., 1 was the cullman melon that had a bad stem.
1 is leaking a little.
1 is half gone. (i picked it tonight for the state fair)
1 is badly leaking and looking poor.

i have 2 regular melons, 1 of which is giving me problems(very rare for me)

9/7/2016 10:19:33 PM

Grant, AL

Ok so this year 4 of your 6 grafts are doing really good? Do you use the same grafting method now that you did in 2012 when you started growing grafts? Also, when you plant a graft, do you do anything different opposed to planting a traditional melon, such as more or less amendments in the planting hole? I have yet to grow a graft but I definitely will next year because of the potential if everything goes good with the stump and plant.

9/7/2016 11:06:09 PM

Grant, AL

Ok guys I've got a question about genetics. Today I noticed that our 255 stump had a tiny hole in the top of it. When I pressed on it the stump was soft around the hole. When I dug slightly into the stump you could tell the stump was starting to rot on the inside. The melon hasn't grown in the past 2 days and we are so close to a possible state record if it weighs a little heavy, which I believe it will with its width. Being as close as I think we are, I carefully took up our stump that grew our 302 melon and cut off all vines with the exception of the main, which I left about 6 feet long. I then took and replanted the 302 stump beside the 255 stump and did a vine graft attaching the 302 main vine to the 255 vine that the melon is growing on. If it takes maybe we can get a few more precious lbs out of it. If it doesn't then I don't expect the melon to grow any more. This is a 255 Mitchell x self. How will using the 302 stump affect the genetics of this melon?

9/8/2016 8:40:07 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

I wouldn't think it matters.
Wouldn't that be decided at pollination?
Take some pictures of that Charles,I'd like to see that.
A stump transplant !
Was the vine the melon on rooted at the nodes?
might could have fed it through that.

9/8/2016 9:19:36 PM

Grant, AL

No Ben I don't have the vine the melon is one rooted cause at about day 20 I had a rot spot on the vine where it was laying on the ground. I still have the vine attached to the 255 stump but I don't expect much out of that stump from the looks of it. The 302 melon grew for 76 days when we cut it off and weighed 165. The stump is still very healthy. I filled the entire planting hole with aged cow manure so maybe the vine graft will take. Time will tell!

9/8/2016 9:50:49 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

Whats the worst that could happen?
It doesn't take.
Worth a shot.
If it takes I shall refer to you as Dr.Bentley from here on out.

9/8/2016 10:13:59 PM

Bowdon, GA

You don,t need a stump to gain a few extra pounds. You might can salvage part of the stump.

9/8/2016 10:14:06 PM

Grant, AL

I know Jake I just don't know how deep in the stump the rot goes. Im going to leave the 255 stump until I know for sure that it's a goner. The other stump is more of an experiment to see if it will work. I guess you could say kind of a backup just in case the 255 stump does go down. Thanks Jake and Ben!

9/8/2016 10:29:20 PM

Bethlehem CT

Charles, The graft will not affect the genetics. If the cross was a 302 x 255, it will still be the same after the new rootstock takes hold. Your melons size may vary because of the graft but the seeds will be the same.

9/9/2016 7:17:20 AM

50 Acres

I don't grow melons, but it sounds innovative to me.Good luck, and let us know the results. Jim

9/9/2016 7:56:09 AM

sevierville, Tn

Charles, you have to post a picture of that. Thats got to be one of the record book.

9/9/2016 12:39:45 PM

sevierville, Tn

Charles, thanks for the pictures. I don't think that will work. I was thinking you were doing a splice. that way the circulations would merge. Now i'm not saying that would work, just that is the way i would do it if i was trying to put them together. a side graft method maybe.

9/10/2016 9:49:53 AM

sevierville, Tn

Approach Grafting

9/10/2016 10:20:57 AM

Grant, AL

Thanks Chris. I didn't think of trying that at the time. I don't think its going to kill either vine if it doesn't take. If it doesn't take by the first of the week then I will retry, this time trying an approach graft as you suggested. I don't expect this to work but it is a good experiment to see if it will and if the melon grows any more if it does take.

9/10/2016 12:14:35 PM

Eastern Shore of VA

I agree with Chris.
Don't think that's going to take,but I have to commend you on the idea.
I think you are one of the promising new growers to this hobby,and expect to hear your name quite often being associated with big melons.
Good luck with that 255 Mitchell.
I hope she will go heavy.

9/10/2016 4:40:36 PM

Grant, AL

Thanks Ben

9/11/2016 6:50:22 AM