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formerly RGG

I have been using HID lighting early on in my patch for a few years now. I continue to use these lights because I have noticed a positive effect on plant grow from them. This year I am growing less plants and I have an equal number of lights. I set these plants out on my birthday, March 25 and have had a light on them every single night. I let them burn even when it is raining. Anyway, the results have been spectacular even though we have had a few rather cool nights and are forecast to have some more. I will continue to use them until probably the 1st of May. Anyway my point is that these plants have grown very well even during the early part of spring. I think the grafted root systems could have a little something to do with my results. That said, I am beginning to believe that it may not be the cool temperatures in the spring that cause slow plant growth as much as it is the lesser amount of light they receive when the sun is lower in the sky and does not shine for as many hours. Please let me know what you think. I will try to post some more pictures of my plants tomorrow.

4/7/2012 8:49:02 PM

formerly RGG

The rest of the plants I have held on to have remained outside but have not been under lights. They have grown little since they were taken off the grow lights on March 25. They appear healthy but their growth is just slowed way down from what it was when they were getting nightly doses of metal halide light.

4/7/2012 8:56:10 PM

formerly RGG

Something else to think about is that pumpkins do better in cold weather than watermelons do. But pumpkins also require less light than watermelons do to thrive. If that wasn't true growers would not need to use shade cloths on pumpkins on hot sunny summer days.

4/7/2012 9:07:58 PM

formerly RGG

I know if it freezes the plants will still die if they are not protected. And I know that light and near freezing temps would still result in slow growth. What I do believe is that if we can keep our plants moderately warm and provide them with an extra source of light we will be able to experience growth rates that are normally not seen in the early part of the growing season. This is important to me because I want to get early fruit set so that I can grow the fruit for 100 plus days and it still not be so late in the season that the amount of sunlight is rapidly diminishing and the days are growing much cooler. The plants are just too large to provide artificial light to them when they are fully grown. I wish I could do that though as I think the results could be awesome.

4/7/2012 9:26:45 PM

Hinckley MN

HID lights also put out alot of heat. unless you have added a similar ammount of extra heat to the plants that do not recieve the extra light, you cannot know for sure if it is the heat, the light , or both affecting the growth.

4/7/2012 11:09:55 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

TD, I think yer shading of pumpkins thing is a bit off-base. The shading of a pkn. has nothing to do w/ plant growth. If pumpkin (plants) required less light...then why is it that the "Golden Zone" theory seem to hold water. I certainly agree, that if plants are kept moderately warm, we experience better growth in the early part of the growing season. Wow...soil heating cables, heat lamps, hoop houses...etc!!! Peace, Wayne

4/8/2012 2:27:46 AM

Muddy Waters

Ok Dennis regardless of lite I dont think you will get good growth under 55 degrees,It may look healthy,it may be ok,but to grow a 300lber thats our goal you will need nites at 65 degrees or more.There calling for 34 degree nites all week.I know I couldnt keep my screenhouse in the good temps,for under about 300$ a month in energy bills.Plus the weigh-offs are to far away.There is however Llyod Brights on Labor Day weekend.I would love to take a melon there almost took the 219 there last year.It was 204 pds OTT that weekend.Grew a pd a day after that.(cold September nites last year)So I like to encourage thinking out of the box.Starting early & such.So Good Luck with your project!

4/8/2012 7:40:06 AM

formerly RGG

Farmer Ben, the ballasts put out most of the heat and they are not even close to the plants. The plants are in the open and what little heat is generated by the bulbs does little to warm the plants up. And that is especially true when there is a little wind. If I wanted to heat these plants I would have them covered in clear plastic. I am very sure it is the extra light affecting their performance.

4/8/2012 8:25:11 AM

formerly RGG

Wayne, well I must admit I know nothing about the reason for shading pumpkins and I have never heard of the "Golden Zone". But you can keep all of your heating cables and heat lamps. I know my money is better spent providing extra light for my plants. I do wish I could afford some hoop houses though. :o)

4/8/2012 8:29:58 AM

formerly RGG

Mark, since they were set out on March 25, my plants have showed good growth on a daily basis and the temperature has often been below 55 degrees. It was in the 30's this morning and we have more mid 30 degree nights in the forecast. I know the plants would grow faster if it was 65 or 70 at night. But the proof is in the pudding. Please check out the pictures I will post later today. These plants are doing great.As far as weigh-offs, these grafted plants are slow to set fruit I am told. And I hope to keep some of them growing a melon for 115 or 120 days to let them reach their full potential. And you are right, there are early weigh-offs I can attend. As for my energy bill, the extra lighting will probably add between $125 and $150 to my monthly electric bill. But hey, it's only for a few more weeks.I am just trying to help other growers learn to get better performance from their plants during cooler weather. I had no idea that some of you more experienced growers are so set in your thinking that you would discount the fact that increased light for plants during the early spring season will dramatically increase their early growth.

4/8/2012 8:43:36 AM

Muddy Waters

Thats great Dennis if you can keep this good early growth going,without a long lull like I had last year(the entire month of may was crap).I think you will do fine.One more cold week I would of lost my plants.A 300 is a 300 even if it doesnt make it to weigh-off the seeds will be good.

4/8/2012 9:24:27 AM

Lloydminster/AB

Up here it's all about soil temp. Lots of light but if the soil cools growth all but stops. Those lights may be warming the soil as well. When the roots run out of warm soil growth may slow. Or where you are the sun will have warmed the soil enough that it's game on.

4/8/2012 9:51:29 AM

formerly RGG

Don, the roots have already run out from the lights. I was hoeing around then about a week ago and ran into roots 4' from the stump. These grafted plants are growing incredible roots. Thank you again, Nathan Okorn, for providing me with plants bearing these incredible root systems. The lights provide light to only about 2 or 3 square feet.

4/8/2012 10:55:34 AM

formerly RGG

Mark, if I can't keep melons growing until October, I can always attend the Iowa State Fair on August 10. It is a GPC event. And then there is the new weigh-off started by Lloyd Bright. It is also a early event.

4/8/2012 11:00:39 AM

Muddy Waters

your right Dennis the roots will typically be grown out farther then what is seen on the surface in plant vines.How long are your vines? from stump to end?

4/8/2012 12:03:55 PM

formerly RGG

I had to step down to the patch and measure Mark. The longest vine from stump to end is 32". I know that is not the 6" a day you can get in the heat of the summer from an established plant. But considering these plants weren't vining at all when they were set out 2 weeks ago, I am very proud of the growth I am getting. I just took out the smallest plant and replaced it with my grafted 285 Edwards. That will be my "late" melon. lol

4/8/2012 12:45:30 PM

Muddy Waters

Not Bad Dennis, 32 inchs I would expect 3 inchs of growth a day if temps allow it.

4/8/2012 4:59:34 PM

Alabama

Dennis, I hope you are prepared for the weather we have coming middle of the week. It's going to be middle 30's here in North Alabama so I know it will be a little colder in TN.

4/8/2012 9:06:43 PM

formerly RGG

Cliff, I am ready for anything but a hail storm.

4/8/2012 9:32:18 PM

formerly RGG

My latest diary pictures are up now. About the only difference between the 179.5 Masterson and the 285 Edwards I replaced it with is the 179.5 was under the HID lights at night for the last 2 weeks while the 285 Edwards was sitting under the stars at night. I know I am right about the effect of the extra light because the proof is right in front of my eyes.

4/8/2012 9:46:04 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Grow, Dennis, Grow!!! Peace, Wayne
PS...from my limited understanding "The Golden Zone" for AG's is somewhere near the US, Canadian border!!! & shading of AG's (the fruit itself) is to help slow the maturation of the shell of the fruit (keep it growin, ya know?)! LOL Peace, Wayne

4/10/2012 1:53:15 AM

Bethlehem CT

Light and heat are both huge factors. I take care of a small greenhouse. In the winter I could crank the temps up to 90 degrees but the plants will still do nothing. If I add extra light then things will start to grow. One without the other is no good. My best year here for melons was actually in 2007 which was cooler than average but we had very little rainfall cloudy days). The sun shone brightly every day, with low humidity.

4/10/2012 7:52:10 AM

formerly RGG

Excellent comments John. I am glad to see someone else on here who understands the reality of how much growth is affected by the available amount of light. I started this post to try to help other growers and it seems most growers are so set in what they think that they are unwilling to give much consideration to the importance of the amount of lights these amazing plants receive.

4/10/2012 8:28:09 AM

Garner, NC

Egg farmers have used lights for egg production forever. It keeps the chickens laying through out the year and they never miss a beat, so yes it does work well. However, a chicken that has a unnatural amount of light gets burned out relativly fast, so I'll just plant in May as normal, when there is planty of natural light, and heat.

4/10/2012 10:38:53 AM

Taylorsville, California

Dreamer- I'm pretty sure most every grower understands the value of light on the growth of plants, photosynthesis, all that- plants need light to grow. I think the problem you are having is that "I know I am right" attitude as that is just another opinion.
I have used many different HID lighting systems and there is no doubt that they help accelerate plant growth. What watt MH are you using, and do you have a nice hood to increase the area the light shines on? If you are serious about using supplemental HID lighting on full plants later in the season there are hoods that will give over 100 sq/ft of light. Good luck this season.

4/10/2012 11:00:43 AM

The North Coast

TD is a great man filled with desire, dedication and yes a bit of attitude. Roll em all up and you get a grower who will blow them up or die trying. He doesn't care if he has no food on his table as long as the melons have everything they need. It has been a joy to work with him and his story will make for a most exciting season.

With what I have seen out of his patch I am pondering placing a HID over my freaky pumpkin...it all comes down to if doing so will be the straw that breaks my wifes back. I guess I will find out!!!

4/10/2012 11:39:55 AM

formerly RGG

Mr Rivers, I call it fact when the proof is right in front of my eyes. It is factual that all six plants that were under lights had a fairly good growth rate while all the remaining plants were not under artificial light and have grown very slowly.In fact the plants under the lights are several times bigger than the ones that received only sunshine. What part of that do you think is opinion and not fact ?

4/10/2012 6:15:39 PM

formerly RGG

Wayne, I was referring to the fact that some southern growers like to provide light shading to their entire plant. It is light intensity I was referring to and not the amount of hours of light a plant gets. I think that both Carolina Cross and Atlantic Giant would thrive in 24 hour daylight like they get north of the arctic circle in the summertime. The sun just circles the horizon up there during that time of the year and it never sets.I think that CC's tolerate or thrive with more light than AG's need to do well. I do put shade tents over my melons to protect them from sunburn.

4/10/2012 9:40:13 PM

formerly RGG

I certainly appreciate what you are saying Todd. I have never before been in the position of being so early it bothers me. In the past and especially last year, my plants were very late; and so it was hard for me to get a fully mature melon before weigh-off time. My 204 did make 90 days by the Allardt contest though. I worry about setting melons too early this year and having them sit around until contest time. I also worry if the melons will grow as well and as fast as they should if they begin growing before the heat of the summer has set in. I do have my doubts. That is the main reason I pulled up one of my larger plants and replaced it with a much smaller 285 Edwards. I want to try for at least one melon that is a few weeks later than the big plants. If my plants fail to swell up early melons at a good average daily weight gain, then I am probably headed for another mediocre year.I could set later melons on the same plants, but I am concerned the plants might play out before harvest time. My whole season is just a big question mark.I think I do have a lot of potential here though if things fall into place just right.

4/10/2012 9:58:24 PM

Lloydminster/AB

Looks like I need to run another power cord to the patch! Lol. I wanted to believe I didn't need it but maybe we have lots of hours of light but not intense enough light for melons, especially through the plastic in a small greenhouse. Good thread.

4/10/2012 11:26:09 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

TD, in no way did I mean to demean any of yer thoughts, or ideas, or efforts!!! Sorta, thinkin that the lite (low % shade cloth), light shading of entire plant,is an AG thing...not melons!!! Peace, Wayne
PS...I do not think that AG's or CC's would thrive in 24 hr. sunlight this far south!!!! I guess that's where the Golden Zone (AG's) idea came from? Maybe? I am also guessing that the Golden Zone for CC's is somewhere in TN!!!! Grow em Big!!! Peace, Wayne

4/11/2012 2:28:00 AM

formerly RGG

Wayne, I certainly think you are one of the nicest guys on this web site. No offense taken at all. I appreciate your input. The leaves of my plants look very peculiar right now. I have given them so much light that there is no incentive for the leaves to grow long stems to grow toward the available light. And so the leaf stems are extremely short and the leaves are almost right on top of the ground.I hope you are right about the CC "golden zone". You very well may be since the world record is here.

4/11/2012 7:35:13 AM

formerly RGG

Thanks Don, I hope I have helped to shed light on the subject. This was all in an attempt to help other growers improve their growing techniques. I am not sure if too much light is ever a problem but I do know these plants need a lot of light to achieve their maximum growth rates.

4/11/2012 7:39:12 AM

Muddy Waters

The Golden ZONEEEEEEE!!!!! is in the Melon Cave!!!!!!!LOL

4/11/2012 8:04:30 AM

formerly RGG

In your dreams Mark. In your dreams. But you do get longer hours of daylight up there. So who knows. lol

4/11/2012 8:19:04 AM

Muddy Waters

Dreams do come true.

4/11/2012 7:39:54 PM

formerly RGG

That is absolutely a fact. :o) I just hope your new world record is a pound or 2 less than mine. lol

4/11/2012 8:09:20 PM

Muddy Waters

It will be but Im growing mine in 2012 yours will be 2013.lol

4/11/2012 9:52:35 PM

formerly RGG

I think you meant to say 2023 Mark. That is when you finally become convinced to grow grafted plants and that they need lots of light to do their very best early on. Only by then your melon will need to be over 400 pounds as the world record will have been broken several times by then. LOL

4/12/2012 7:41:16 AM

Muddy Waters

Hold on Dennis, I have to go get my waders from the garage!

4/12/2012 7:55:35 AM

The North Coast

lol!

4/12/2012 8:33:16 AM

formerly RGG

lol! Mark

4/12/2012 8:52:46 AM

Marshall, MI

In my opinion more light is good,TD.
I'm not sure 24hrs a day is good,but my hats off to youfor finding out.
I'm sure if you get a monster melon there will be a big surge in lightbulb sales next year.
In fact I just bought some in case theres a shortage.

4/13/2012 9:16:29 AM

formerly RGG

Bill I think I have been actually overdoing the light. I don't think it hurts much as long as I don't burn the leaves and I have needed the warmth the lights provide for the last few cold nights. It is warming now and the lights will be left off tonight. I can tell the plants have been getting more light than they need because the leaf stems are extremely short. That is what happens when a plant gets so much light it has no incentive to grow a long leaf stem to get itself in a better position to receive light.Sufficient light is important; but as I have often been reminded, too much of anything is not good.

4/13/2012 9:42:41 PM

Muddy Waters

Yes Dennis,Great experiment keep us posted.As for the melon sisters & I were going all natural.No silicone,no artifical lites,No Botox!LOL

4/14/2012 6:19:14 AM

formerly RGG

It is proven technology for me Mark and nothing experimental. These lights are manufactured for growing plants and I have used them for many years. I have seen how they are able to accelerate growth in CC watermelons. I was just trying to pass on some knowledge to other growers. :o)

4/14/2012 1:32:32 PM

Piqua, Ohio

Dennis just wanted to let you know how my grafted plant is doing versus the ole' fashion way, my 233 Caro Kent grafted has 10 leaves and starting to vine the stalk is as big around as a #2 pencil, the 233 Caro Kent non-graft is three inches tall with 2 leaves and the stalk is a little bigger around than a toothpick! They are only 2 weeks old. Soon I hope to have some pics posted, I have 7 plants only 1 is grafted and it's the most vigorous, no joke. I just put my plants on 6 hours of darkness weds. and they are already bushing up! If you want to know more about growing with lights go to a local hydroponic store, no joke a guy can learn a lot from pot growers! I get a lot of info from dayton hydroponics.

4/14/2012 1:50:46 PM

The North Coast

I am happy to hear that your graft is going well. Did you get the graft to take yourself?

4/14/2012 5:22:05 PM

Piqua, Ohio

yes, that's why there's only one. I lost several, it was my first attempt

4/14/2012 6:35:43 PM

The North Coast

Congrats Josh!

4/14/2012 6:49:41 PM

formerly RGG

That is all great to hear Josh. My plants are also doing great. I think the extra large cots from the rootstock added to the regular cots from the melon plant help to accelerate the growth of the true leaves of the watermelon plant. I do know a little about grow-lights. My uncle Sam gave me a 10 month vacation at his big house in Atlanta when he caught me growing some happy smoke with them back in 1992.

4/14/2012 10:46:50 PM

sevierville, Tn

I visited Dennis today, wow, those are some big plants. Its amazing what those grafts do for the melon plants. I predict Dennis will have his best year ever if the weather doesn't get him ! Thanks for the tour Dennis. Grow em big

4/14/2012 11:13:19 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Wowzers, and a lil off topic...Sweet (or not) to hear that I am not the only one, that "our" Uncle Sam sent free vacations to!!! Evidently our Uncle has more than one, Big House? Peace, Wayne I got a free (15 month) vacation in ,Lexington, KY!!!

4/15/2012 12:19:03 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Mr. (Superman) Kent, are you growing this year? Peace, Wayne
PS...Hope so!!!

4/15/2012 12:20:03 AM

Muddy Waters

The grow stores are great,If lite is so good why not grow 24/7 with it all season long?

4/15/2012 9:49:32 AM

Piqua, Ohio

Mark,
24 hours of light too long will stunt there growth, that's why you switch them to 18 & 6 then eventually 12 & 12, my buddy grows hydro maters inside all season long, and he produces more pounds to the acre. Agriculture has changed a lot in my lifetime and will continue. As the world population rises we need to produce more pounds to the acre, I'm just doing a little research with my melons the same way it's done in agriculture! Field Trials, if you keep using the same techniques year after year how do you expect to improve? I'm just sharing what I'm doing I don't expect everyone to change what they do, you obviously know how to grow melons! I will know this fall if it's a waste of time or not.

4/15/2012 12:16:49 PM

formerly RGG

Mark, I would love to continue to give my plants 18 hours of light a day for the rest of the season. Unfortunately, I don't have enough lights to cover more than a few square feet and if I did have several hundred lights I could not afford the electricity to run them. I could barely afford to run the six I was using for a few weeks. I am done with it now for this year, I think. I need my money for other things, it is getting warmer, the days are getting longer and the sun is getting higher in the sky during the day. I have packed the lights up and put them back in the house until next year.I feel they have enabled me to get an excellent start on the season and that was my intention. Mission accomplished.

4/15/2012 2:24:23 PM

Piqua, Ohio

Late in aug. I put a high pressure sodium light with a dome on a post above my plants. 10-12 feet high it will reflect on the whole plant, it helps a little when the daylight start getting shorter! I will use grow lights all season if I can afford to!

4/15/2012 2:47:31 PM

Muddy Waters

Thanks for the information,Dennis & Josh.

4/15/2012 5:41:15 PM

formerly RGG

High pressure sodium emits a spectrum of light more conducive for flowering and swelling up fruit.

4/15/2012 9:44:36 PM