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Reelfoot Lake, Tennessee

By way of explanation--I got into growing exhibition melons last year in an attempt to "best" my neighbor ( a retired professor of math, a published author, and a melon grower).
Using OTT measurements I keep getting seriously light-to-the-tape reading on all my melons.
When I mentioned my "light" problem he scowled his best professorial scowl and informed me that he had a far more accurate means of calculating the weight of a watermelon.

Would one of you pros test his formula?

It reads as follows: Straight Length x girth x blossom to stem length--then multiply the result by a factor of: .0026918.
I tried the formula on an older cull pulled today and it predicted 44.1--on a digital bathroom scale the cull weighed 43.5. Using OTT measurements I was "way,way" light on that same melon at 57.5#.
The old fellow is a world class braggart and obstinate to a fault so I would be quite pleased to inform him that he's full of..., ah...,watermelon. TIA, Clutch

8/16/2011 10:27:17 PM

formerly RGG

Very interesting. I am going to have to find my calculator.I'll bet it's a sound method.

8/16/2011 10:38:10 PM

Muddy Waters

I wouldnt want to mess with girth measuring Lifting melon as little as possible & I wouldnt pull tape across skin as my burn & scar fruit! I think the OTT is more accurate when you get over 100 pds.I dont think any system will ever be 100% as kins go 25% over all the time.its just a gauge to get you in the ballpark!Plus watering get affect your air cavity throwing the chart off.But Im not a pro either!! Just my 3 cents!!LOL

8/16/2011 10:47:20 PM

Muddy Waters

I have a kin right now I know is 100 pds over chart!Thats Ok!
I can live with that!!LOL

8/17/2011 6:41:29 AM

formerly RGG

Mark is correct about girth measuring. Lots of growers just won't go to all the trouble of doing this.So I doubt if this new method catches on even if it is more accurate.

8/17/2011 8:06:42 AM

Alabama

I think I like this method better than the OTT scale: 293.2lbs, I'll take that all day and twice on Sunday.

8/17/2011 11:45:35 AM

formerly RGG

I just tried this new weight formula on my best melon and it also came out a few pounds heavier than the OTT chart. I am up to 142 pounds by this method. :-)

8/17/2011 12:35:31 PM

Trinity River Bottom

Maybe i should use it too Dennis, at least it would make me feel better..LOL

8/17/2011 12:47:12 PM

Ut

Can I ask how you measure the 'straight length'? I have a couple 30 lb. culls I can try it on and then I'll try it on the big ones when I weight them.

8/17/2011 1:59:27 PM

sevierville, Tn

how did he get this formula ??? i know the ott is too heavy on small melons, so is this correct on big melons if its right on small. What i mean is, how big a melon have you tested it on?

8/17/2011 2:54:35 PM

Reelfoot Lake, Tennessee

WMD, I've watched Mr. Older (my neighbor) measure straight lengths with a 60" yardstick(perhaps, "level lengths" might be a better term). One side of the stick has velcro to which he attaches what he calls "drop sticks" (also velcro'd sections of an old yardstick to which he has attached "squaring arms"). He places each on the yardstick at each end of the melon and reads the results. He uses the same device to measure the height and width of the melon and, using a formula I can't begin to accurately and properly explain, calculates the melon's girth.

I'd ask him to explain it directly, but he does not have a computer (or a car--guess who hauls his fertilizer and other soil amendments---and his melons to the fairs). He doesn't even own a typewriter--writes his math textbooks in long hand and grudgingly pays someone to render his efforts into publishable format.
The foregoing should give you a little insight into the old man's nature. Hope I haven't completely confused anyone. I'd still like to have one of you pros find flaws in his method. Regards, Clutch

8/17/2011 3:14:32 PM

Reelfoot Lake, Tennessee

Mr. Kent, the fellow says the formula is derived from measurements and weights of hundreds of melons he has grown over the past dozen years. He calls it "backwards histography" (whatever that means).
As to my oft repeated question regarding the size of his biggest melons---"bigger than yours" is all he will say. If he's leveling with me, that means he's north of 127# (my best from last year).
I'll ask him tonight if the formula's accuracy varies with the melon's size and report back to you tomorrow. Regards, Clutch

8/17/2011 3:26:53 PM

Lexington, Ky

I have to second HHG thoughts on this one. While they're in the field growing, all we need is a gauge. At some point, you'd just about need two people to pull it off and one extra body around the melon is two clumsy feet that most of us wouldn't want. I'm sure there's an application (post harvest) for the formula. I'd like to see it tested on some 200+ pounders.

8/17/2011 3:45:27 PM

Muddy Waters

Is this Guys last name Einstein by chance!!

8/17/2011 3:45:30 PM

Trinity River Bottom

if it is accurate it would work good for me i already have the girth tapes in place

8/17/2011 3:56:38 PM

Reelfoot Lake, Tennessee

HHG, my neighbor is Dr. Sebastian "Seth" Older. He holds a doctorate in math from Cornell.
My wife called a bit ago to report finding a stray melon as she used a string trimmer to clear the bordering overgrowth on the side of a melon patch. In her words, "it's a pretty good size"; unfortunately she cut the melon's vine before seeing the melon.
Have asked her to show it to Prof. Older and have him calculate(predict) the weight. When I get home from work tonight, I'll run the "Older" calculation and the OTT. Then, and only then, I'll weigh the stray melon and report the results to the board. Regards, Clutch

8/17/2011 5:04:02 PM

Garner, NC

Just measured one of mine with the "older"chart, and boy I hope its right, however I feel it was off about 40lbs.

8/17/2011 5:21:02 PM

Reelfoot Lake, Tennessee

Doctor Older rather emphatically refused his invitation to measure the "stray" melon my wife discovered this afternoon by stating "my predictive factor is effective only on oblong melons of proper confirmation." Meaning, I think, that melons showing incomplete pollination (pinched blossom end as did the stray)cannot be accurately calculated.
However, I measured for both the "Older" and "OTT" methods as follows:
OTT--cc:50.5, ss:33.375, ee: 41.875 = 125.75 giving a prediction of: 64.3 lbs.
OLDER: L: 19.25, B/S: 22.5, G: 36.875
(19.25 x 22.5 x 36.875 =15971.484 x .0026918 giving a prediction of: 42.992 lbs

The melon weighed (on my bathroom scale): 47.5 lbs
OTT: overstated weight by 35+ %
OLDER: understated weight by 9.5%

Results: Inconclusive --
As to the accuracy of the weighting factor on 200+ lbs melons--quoting Dr. Older: "I have no idea. Have never grown one that big."
Maybe next year I'll grow a big one for him to audit.
Regards, Clutch

8/17/2011 9:01:23 PM

Muddy Waters

I used to Work at the Carnival As a Weight Guesser!I dated & later Married the Bearded Fat Lady!Just send me a photo & I will tell you what they weigh!!LOL With Measurements Of course!!

8/17/2011 9:35:08 PM

Bowdon, GA

Just my opinion, no formula works well once you get over 200. That is when light heavy really shows up. I tried plotting all the melons in James' data base on a graph and forming a trend line formula. It worked well up to 200 pounds. Once you get there the numbers are all over the place. For instance I looked at L+G on James' sheet two melons within an inch of each other had a weight difference of 60+ pounds. Your neighbors formula favors the length. Long melons would be over estimated.Only way to know for sure is to grow one on a scale, but I think the OTT is the best guage we got right now.

8/17/2011 10:37:36 PM

Bowdon, GA

Wow I'm with Todd I like it. Mine is really long. It was about 55 pounds heavier than the OTT with the "Older Method". As long as it is I'll be luck to match the OTT.

8/17/2011 11:27:33 PM

Muddy Waters

word!jake!!lol sussie!!

8/18/2011 6:24:19 AM

Corryton, TN

Unfortunately I'll be able to test this Older method today or tomorrow. Results to follow.

8/18/2011 7:27:17 AM

Ut

Whether it works or not I have to tell you that I REALLY like this eccentric old guy

8/18/2011 2:24:17 PM

Corryton, TN

Here's the numbers, weight will be here in the AM.

CC=94 EE=58 SS=42 Girth=56 Length=36.5 Blossom to stem measured over the top 44

If my math is correct:
OTT est 205
Older est 242

I'm pulling for MR. Older

8/18/2011 6:03:02 PM

Reelfoot Lake, Tennessee

brotherdave, I have mixed emotions--I wish you the best and hope it reaches the Older value, but---I'd take some small satisfaction in reporting the contrary to my neighbor.
BTW, he shared a bit of trivia yesterday PM and given our mutual interest in the subject thought some might find it interesting: Some years ago two doctoral candidates in Iran (maybe it was Turkey)wrote a co-authored doctoral dissertation on--a methodology for calculating the volume and weight of a watermelon. To quote the Prof: "some mathmeticians are quite squirrely."
Won't argue that one. Regards, Clutch

8/18/2011 6:15:59 PM

Corryton, TN

Some disappointment here but not much. 183 lbs

8/19/2011 11:23:38 AM

sevierville, Tn

can i guess the seeds on line....783

8/19/2011 2:50:33 PM

Bowdon, GA

Turkish melons look alot shorter may work on them. Dang Bro Dave hate to see it went light still a nice melon though. Was it kind of wide and flat?

8/19/2011 3:04:02 PM

Corryton, TN

Long, wide and flat. Looks like my whole patch may go light. Sure ain't lack of water. Just got the water bill and mama ain't happy, $248, normally $30. Why do the bills get here on Friday. Glad I've got a big barn.

Unrelated to yours Chris. But used as a pollinator on a couple. We'll cut her in 10 days and see how hollow it is.

8/19/2011 3:36:39 PM

sevierville, Tn

I sure hate that it went light too. I thought you watered from your ponds? Looks like about 20 lbs hollow ! LOL

Should be a good cross, bringing in those carson genetics !

8/19/2011 4:20:02 PM

Corryton, TN

Found out I can reach the modem from the barn!! Everything BUT the competition patch comes from the pond. Been informed that I need to rotate to a new patch next year, one that WILL be irrigated from the pond. Not a bad plan anyhow, but don't tell the little wife, I want her to think she has all the control. LOL

8/19/2011 4:35:26 PM

Muddy Waters

Are you guys adding calcium to your soil?? you lite fellers??

8/19/2011 6:46:45 PM

Garner, NC

Hey Handy, I thought you only use 20 20 20 twice to grow the biguns. Sandbagger! Lol

8/19/2011 7:17:04 PM

Reelfoot Lake, Tennessee

brotherdave, thanks for your weight report. Have shared ur findings with Prof. Older. His exact response: "A rather small sample. Now, Young Neighbor, go be happy in your chatternet world while I pursue the universal truths hidden between zero and infinity."
He does take some gettin' used to. Regards, Clutch

8/19/2011 8:21:10 PM

Muddy Waters

No in the soil prep stage I added Aragomite(33% calcium)LOL

8/19/2011 9:01:55 PM

Bowdon, GA

A flat wide melon tends to inflate the circ which is a large portion of your measurement.

8/19/2011 9:57:47 PM

Bowdon, GA

I think Mark is correct. I use to be about 10+ lbs light all the time. Last year I used a lot more water, most were even to slightly heavy. This year I upped the cal. and sprayed CO2. We will see how well it worked soon enough, the 113 I lost a few weeks ago was the heaviest I've ever had for its size. The big one is long though, and may not hold true for it. I know how you feel Dave. My wife threaten to send me to the barn over all the sand I've been draging in LOL.

8/19/2011 10:11:07 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Handy, girth w/out wear & tear is sorta easy...go to WallyWorld, buy a dozen 5' fabric type tapes from the fabric department...about $2 ea. lay em under the melons, and leave em there!!! Everytime ya wanta know girth, just pick up the ends of the tape!!! If girth gets over 60"...just laugh and tell us about it!!! Peace, Wayne
PS...grow em BIG!!!

8/20/2011 2:51:37 AM

Muddy Waters

No PW!! there is no GIRTH in OTT! will ck girth at scale!this girth is causing confuision with the newbies!!I can figure girth by adding width to side to side!I did it with Chris Kents 291 only off 1 inch off!I dont shop WallyWorld its destroying America!!Dammitt!!Call me & I will tell you what I really Think!!lol

8/20/2011 5:55:12 AM

Muddy Waters

Yeah Jake!I expect heavy melons this year as the 191 was 15 lbs over the charts last year with no soil test.This year I added Calcium,Kelp meal.Sulfur,Humate,Cottonseed meal& lots of Mycorr 4 lbs on patch!Ive never recalled a melon weighing lite!there on the money or heavy!If there full of hot air,looks like I will have some personal competition!LOL

8/20/2011 6:05:41 AM

Corryton, TN

Calcium levels per soil test was 3955. Could be low but still in the very high range and about the same as another patch that has no hollow heart issues (commercial). If I can remember, I'll plant some of the same seeds next year in both patches to see if CC's grown like commercials have fewer incidences of hollow hearts.

8/20/2011 11:15:59 AM

Muddy Waters

mine was 2763 before amendments

8/20/2011 11:52:16 AM

Bowdon, GA

Well the Calcium levels are good, don't know what happened. Maybe it was a gentic thing? Hope the rest are heavy.

8/20/2011 12:31:11 PM

Muddy Waters

Water They have to have water every day!Or with drip tape! every other day they cant dry out or you will have air in them!I just knocked on mine there solid.I have 1 outside that sounds hollow it went a few days dry it will weigh lite.Cliffs must not of been watered every day,or not enough water!Im doing about 100 gallons of water per plant 13X24 every 36 hours!

8/20/2011 8:38:25 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Handy, you seemed to be concerned about measuring girth, w/ out damage? "I wouldnt want to mess with girth measuring Lifting melon as little as possible & I wouldnt pull tape across skin as my burn & scar fruit!" Was just an inexpensive suggestion to keep notes on girth measurements! I know that girth is not part of OTT! I did not think this up, just tryin to learn!!! Grow em BIG!!! Peace, Wayne

8/21/2011 12:11:00 AM

Muddy Waters

Thats cool PW! Ive never done a girth Measurement before.I will this year at weigh -off.The less I mess with my melons the better off they are.Im almost to the point of not weeding anymore as this will cause more damage than Good!About sept 1 Im done weeding & will just spray & water!I have no desire to Know girth!

8/21/2011 11:12:59 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Handy, it's awl good...but this thread started w/a new formula that included girth as one of the measurements!!! Would certainly help Clutch, and Dr. Older, if you did those measurements at the weighoff!!! Nice idea!!! Grow em BIG!!! Peace, Wayne

8/23/2011 1:21:59 AM

formerly RGG

Mark, you can't water a melon plant in clay soil 100 gallons every 36 hours and expect good results. Clay doesn't drain well at all. That is unless the soil is very well amended.Too much water and there won't be enough oxygen getting to the roots and you know what that leads to.

8/23/2011 8:25:56 AM

Reelfoot Lake, Tennessee

Doing the measurements at weighoffs is a marvelous idea, but the nearest ones are several hours drive away and ain't no way the Professor is going leave his patches unguarded for that length of time. As for me, I suspect the "pros" wouldn't let an evil-eyed flatlander near their prize melons. I'll get to a weighoff someday, maybe, and maybe I'll have a melon worth taking. Regards, Clutch

8/23/2011 8:58:20 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Clutch, I am hoping that this post (thread, whatever) leads to a lot of girth measurements being taken at weighoff sites, and posted on this incredible forum!!! Then you can take em to the Professor!!! Then he can KRUNCH some real numbers!!!! LOL Peace, Wayne

8/23/2011 10:25:09 PM

Muddy Waters

Im doing it TD! 100 gallons every 36 hrs on clay soil!!

8/23/2011 11:00:46 PM

formerly RGG

But you do have well amended and good draining soil, correct Mark? It makes all the difference. I think I could get away with that much watering as I have all 3 also. I have well amended clay soil that drains well. For the not so lucky ones who don't have excellent drainage, that much water on top of clay would be very detrimental to plant health.Don't you agree Mark? :-)

8/23/2011 11:19:04 PM

sevierville, Tn

Clutch, there are lots of measurements from last year posted with girth. Just read back to last fall. All my big ones are there.

8/24/2011 6:40:29 AM

Ut

Okay I tried it on my first pick.
Actual weight on bathroom scale: 90 lbs.
OTT estimate: 96 lbs.
CON (Crazy Old Neighbor) estimate: 107

Traditional Chart wins that one.
It was a little pear shaped- never grew all the way out of it so that might factor in.

9/7/2011 3:46:20 PM

Muddy Waters

No 2 people can water the same!

9/7/2011 9:57:36 PM