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My PH is 7.6 and was 7.4 this time last year. I added Elemental Sulfur last year to the soil with no resolve. This will be the third year growing in this area. What can I do to lower the PH by planting time in May? Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

3/23/2023 9:27:15 PM

Watlington, UK

Elemental Sulfur will take a few years to have a proper effect and you need quite a lot of it. You could also try adding more organic material and treat your water with acid too. A pH of 7.6 although not ideal isn't too bad, the main problems will be iron and manganese uptake, but that's easily remedied with a foliar spray.

3/24/2023 4:16:19 AM

Austin MN

Check the pH of you water. By getting your water pH to 6.7 ish that will really help too! My pH is always high too growing in a high calcium sub soil.

3/24/2023 7:08:14 AM

Grittyville, WA

Ammonium ion is quite acidifying, if you need a nitrogen boost or phosphorus, but I agree with Garwolf too. The real issue is the uptake of minerals not the ph, so humic/fulvic could help. Some would argue that the oxidation state of the minerals in the soil is what matters, not the ph. (The link between nutrient availability and ph is really just a link to the oxidizing affect of calcium carbonate.) So things that cause oxidation like excessive tillage will exacerbate a deficiency linked to ph whereas certain cover crops (or their associated soil biology) like -->clovers and some strains of oats?? <-- will promote a reduced mineral chemisty (the opposite of oxidized).

3/24/2023 9:54:49 AM

Grittyville, WA

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/HO/HO-241-W.pdf

3/24/2023 9:55:57 AM

Syracuse, NY

I dunno - I don't INTEND to do anything about my probably-around-7.8 pH around here THIS year butt this website seemed legit and well-worded as far as all the different types of and speeds and warnings about each type of pH-lowering method. Combined with Little Kins' link, they might work well together.
DEFINITELY read up on each method thoroughly before utilizing any.

It's got ME thinking about it.
Good Luck!
eric g

https://www.growerexperts.com/how-to-lower-ph-in-soil-fast/

3/24/2023 12:53:43 PM

stoughton WI

my p.h. is 7.5 and ive been growing in the same spot going on 20 years. I've never been able to change the p.h. more than .1. your better off doing soil tissue samples for 2 years to find what your plant is deficient in. it will most likely be the same things year after year and then use a well balanced fertilizer with micro nutrients in it. depending on your soil the top ones are usually copper, zinc, phosphorous, potassium and 1 more that i forget. keep your soil healthy and learn your plants. best of luck.

3/24/2023 8:51:02 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Great input Rick J, copper, zinc, manganese and iron are the micro-nutrients that we struggle with maintaining here..

3/24/2023 9:39:41 PM

Bethlehem CT

https://www.greenhousemag.com/article/gm_1209_fertilizer_nutrient_solubility_mobility/

Lots of good information here

3/25/2023 11:41:38 AM

Bethlehem CT

I found this link too. This article did say that elemental sulfur was the best way to go to lower pH but that it was slow release, The sulfur depends on soil biology to break it down first, then it can acidify the soil. (which is why it is slow to change pH)

https://extension.wvu.edu/agriculture/horticulture/lowering-soil-ph

One last thing to note is that depending on what native soil you are starting with, I believe should affect what you are shooting for in terms of your pH goal. For example my highly acidic granite based soil might be at it's optimum if I bring it to a pH of 6.3. Perhaps your more basic native soil would be best at a final pH of 7 to 7.2

3/25/2023 12:03:05 PM

Lymington UK

I wouldn’t worry about the pH.The bottom line is that reducing the pH is not really going to happen unless you pile in huge amounts of peat.
I would accept the pH and work on dealing with feeding nutrients eg iron with forms that are available at a high pH.
As Rick says it’s just a matter of identifying your problem elements and dealing with them. Ricks world class so take his advice.
Ian

3/25/2023 3:07:05 PM

Torrance, Ca.

What Rick said!

This has taken me years to do and learning more each year.

Not sure who this Ian guy is, but he seems to know what he's talking about.;)

3/25/2023 8:53:55 PM

Syracuse, NY

Let's hear OF a list of elements that can be custom-applied in race-ready form that are appropriate for her 7.6 pH; If it were NOT for the pH mattering at some point for an average grower such as myself, this discussion would never occur year after year ('YAY', LOL) and I also could simply go by a soil test with no indication of pH included - I could just cross it off and go by what the soil test indicates I need otherwise.
Is a soil test's results dependent upon the pH it is tested under AT that moment?
Just wonderin'.
Oh, yeah - I read somewhere that soil pH is unnoticed by Mycorrhizae, so, those little buggers are still champs in my book, lol.
I have a SSex(whoops)periment in my living room with a fuzzy carpet showing along the top of it, so, I know they're there for me, lol; 'Feed me nowww...'
My problem thereout is that I'll surely need to till Myco in again and copiously bury vines to 'walk the walk', like I should anyway.
As I think big moon is saying, the soil will try to always revert to its constituents' original pH
whereas another has said that high-pH soils will stay 'up' more fervently, so I and PG are in the same boat. Hi! eg

3/25/2023 11:07:05 PM

stoughton WI

pumpkinpal, 1st of all you need to know what your plant is deficient in. i simply use a liquid fertilizer, it is 6-4-4 and it has magnesium, boron, copper, iron, manganese, and zinc in it. i use it once a week and i dont see the issues ive seen in the past.

3/26/2023 3:33:24 PM

stoughton WI

pumpkinpal, 1st of all you need to know what your plant is deficient in. i simply use a liquid fertilizer, it is 6-4-4 and it has magnesium, boron, copper, iron, manganese, and zinc in it. i use it once a week and i dont see the issues ive seen in the past.

3/26/2023 3:33:31 PM

Syracuse, NY

Oh, yeah the first thing is always to get the soil tested and I'd be sorry if I plowed through that however I see that I didn't really (I guess I'm sorry no matter what, to cover my bases (or acids), lol, no pun intended);

"and I also could simply go by a soil test with no indication of pH included -
I could just cross it off and go by what the soil test indicates I need otherwise.
Is a soil test's results dependent upon the pH it is tested under AT that moment?
Just wonderin'."

When I was perusing the charts that depict availability of nutrients with the red/green/yellow arrows with columns of 4 - 7 - 10 as the range, I noticed the reason, perhaps, as to why anyone says that a slightly acidic
value of about 6.8 is best for us because the only element that appears to be hindered BY a higher pH of even 7 (pun!) is iron and in the other direction by FAR is I believe Molybdenum...
So, I guess what I was wondering is if a soil report is hypothetically done with soil that is at a pH of 6, 7 or 8, are the results going to be different...or exactly the same, as though the pH is an entirely separate function of the soil and although it
AFFECTS the uptake of nutrients, is or are as much of each required to attain the goals regardless of pH? The music SHOULD sound the same at any volume, but it doesn't, does it...

No one is obligated to answer and sorry, Rick j. for my abrasive nature, lol---
Yesterday sucked and today is pretty good, lol---
Is there a brand associated?
I am a nut for Miracle-Gro, myself - eric g

3/26/2023 9:48:29 PM

Syracuse, NY

Oh, okay - yer going by the plant itself as it grows.
Well, there is 'soil' mentioned in there, too---
For me that'd be like trying to back up a tractor trailer and I have no experience with that. Where's the 'Start' Button? Look out...
Well, Whatever works for Whomever - I'll admit that I have not found nor really looked hard for my Whatever. I used to add IRONITE and like 19-19-19 to my soils copiously before I ever found BigPumpkins.com - and i had reliably bigger pumpkins back then, too! later---eric g

3/27/2023 4:49:08 PM

Kutztown, PA

I put sulfur down last fall in an effort to lower soil PH. I did because manganese and magnesium have been deficient in my last two soil solution tests. My soil PH isn't terrible (7.1) but I thought I might give it a little downward push. I also sprayed chelated manganese and put down epson salts.
I have to say that there's plenty of people out there that say don't waste your money on sulfur if you have an abundance of calcium carbonate in your soil. Some say regardless of your soil type your better off going with aluminum or iron sulfate sense neither of those require microbial interaction. There's other's who say sulfur doesn't work at all. There's also a bunch of differing opinions regarding how long it takes sulfur to break down, i.e. every thing from a couple of months to a couple of years. I think the best I can do is throw the dice and continue with sulfur, lower my water PH, which is also 7.1, and let it roll. I wonder if you can enhance the specific bacteria strains that metabolize sulfur without killing off the good guys?

3/28/2023 1:58:49 PM

Grittyville, WA

Don't try to fix what aint broke Garwolf... I got my best results in soil that tested at 7.1...
Sulfer is somewhat antimicrobial? Thats why dried fruit is dusted with sulfer? I have a patch where I applied sulfer heavily last year. A year later I can still see pellets of sulfer in some spots. I didnt notice any effect good or bad on the plants that grew there vs where no sulfer was applied. Btw, rainwater is slightly acidic.

3/28/2023 3:39:11 PM

valtierra/spain

my ph is 7.8 and the ph of my water is 8.4. I simply try to put all the water at an acid ph, with citric, and do leaf analysis, to find out what nutrients the plant does not assimilate, to add them weekly.The ph of the soil is one thing, and the ph of the soil mixed with water with an acidic ph is another thing... it is always lower. Luck.

3/28/2023 4:38:22 PM

valtierra/spain

Excess sulfur in the soil can affect the availability of other essential plant nutrients, especially micronutrients. Excess sulfur can block the absorption and utilization of nutrients such as iron, manganese, and zinc. These micronutrients are important for proper plant growth and development and can limit crop yields if they are not available in sufficient amounts.

In the specific case of growing giant pumpkins, excess sulfur can affect their growth and development, which can result in a lower yield.

3/28/2023 4:43:43 PM

Lymington UK

Ruben, that’s great to chip in here and give confidence to those who are growing with a high pH.
Thank you my friend
Ian

3/28/2023 6:57:08 PM

Kutztown, PA

Gritty, it did take several months for those little sulfur pills to disappear. Don't see'em anymore. Sulfur/Sulfate leeches out fairly quick so I don't think I did any damage. We'll see. Ruben's comment regarding Sulfur impeding the uptake of other nutrients is interesting. Ironically I am trying to lower the PH with sulfur to increase the uptake of manganese. Maybe Ruben can tell us what is considered "Excess" sulfur in terms of concentration in the soil??

3/29/2023 10:40:52 AM

Grittyville, WA

Garwolf, if I remember correctly, I believe the soil guy I watch says manganese should be applied as a chelate, and probably as a foliar, otherwise it likes to just sit inactive in the soil. The quatities of chelated micronutrients required are so small that it might be cheaper and better than changing the chemistry of the entire soil profile... especially when moving one lever up will inadvertently bump some other lever down. Beating a dead horse here cuz its really easy to understand what Rmen and IanP and Rick J. are saying but we've been so completely engrained with this idea that we need to control the ph.
Grow big y'all.

3/29/2023 1:32:01 PM

valtierra/spain

excess sulfur, I consider it more than 1000 ppm. So you can be very calm. But there are people who put in such a quantity of sulfur that it can reach 1,500 or 2,000 ppm, and that is a big mistake, since it blocks several micronutrients.

3/29/2023 4:31:33 PM

Kutztown, PA

Thanks for that Ruben - I feel much better. My sulfate level in the fall was only 80 ppm. I put about 50 lb. down on about 4,600 sf (430 square meters), so I doubt that it did much anyway. I'm curious to know with a PH of 7.1, what should I adjust my water PH to? Can anyone here give me some idea?

3/30/2023 8:36:38 AM

Grittyville, WA

I think in the mid 6's for water, I forgot to say although my soil was 7.1 or 7.3 I was watering with 6.0 ph water.

3/30/2023 1:16:59 PM

Kutztown, PA

Little Kins, what are you using to acidify? Sulfuric maybe?

3/30/2023 2:44:26 PM

Grittyville, WA

Ha ha nothing. My groundwater has zero calcium carbonate. Volcanic/granite based soils here. The nearest limestone is 100 miles away.

3/30/2023 4:37:17 PM

Grittyville, WA

By that I mean, my well water is a consistent 6.0 ph, for better or worse. I dont know enough about high ph soils except where I use too much wood ash, so I will now kindly bow out of this discussion.

3/30/2023 4:46:00 PM

Grittyville, WA

Ps Garwolf, you would probably like John Kempf's "advancing eco agriculture" videos. He seems to have quite a grasp on such things, he talks quite a bit about (ironically) removing minerals like calcium from water for more effective foliar applications of micronutrients. You might want to check out his youtube page.

3/30/2023 4:52:09 PM

Kutztown, PA

Wouldn't it be great to have 6.5-6.8 water and soil in the same range too. Where does such a place naturally occur?

3/31/2023 1:13:28 PM

Grittyville, WA

Fiji. Lol, I don't know! Rainwater is the correct ph though and low in minerals that would interfere with micronutrients, so collecting rainwater could be useful. Indeed, the best things in life are free.

3/31/2023 3:16:03 PM

Syracuse, NY

Right here -
You'd better like it, 'cause it took me an hour to find it, lol!
https://www.popisms.com/TelevisionCommercial/36082/Pure-Blonde-Commercial-2011

3/31/2023 3:42:36 PM