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nOVA sCOTIA

This hobby has become rediculous expensive over the years and if i spend $$$$ on product it better be legit!!! I think every grower on this site deserves the truth when spending facking thousands on this facking hobby!!! Who is the manufacture of Marks product and where can we obtain legit info as to the quality of this product???? Is that too much to ask before we cast blame???????????

4/21/2017 8:53:27 PM

Massachusetts

Ouch

4/21/2017 10:04:13 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

Sorry but prove your product Marley and i have no ploblem...

4/21/2017 10:13:10 PM

Deal With It

I'm not understanding the part where anyone has a right to the proprietary info regarding Mark's supplier.

Have you ever seen a group protesting outside a popular restaurant, demanding to know what makes the food taste so damn good?

Help a moron out?

4/21/2017 10:26:02 PM

Western Massachusetts

I agree. Manufacters info shouldn't matter as much as customers reviews of the product.

Going along to the restaurant theme, would you not eat at a restaurant with great reviews just because you didn't know the secret behind their good food?

4/21/2017 10:31:12 PM

Anamosa, IA [email protected]

There are lots of places to buy growing supplies. If you don't like one, buy from someone else. Its just like buying cars. Some people like Ford, some GM, some Chrysler, some like other brands. Someone might hate Chevy's because they got a lemon, others just love them. If you don't like Mark's Mixes, buy something else. If they work great for you stick with them. I don't see a problem or a need to run anyone down.

4/21/2017 10:57:46 PM

Western Massachusetts

Exactly. The reason I came to this site was because I liked the community feeling, like we were all in this hobby together for the same goals. Don't let disputes over personal products ruin BP.com for other growers

4/21/2017 11:01:55 PM

Rudolph

Mark gave me samples of a few of his product's, the quality was very good, even if he packages the product at his home it makes no difference, how's a business suppose to start if you don't start somewhere?

4/21/2017 11:14:13 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

Think i will grow a giant cucumber....

4/21/2017 11:16:42 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

For Clare..

4/21/2017 11:17:28 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

How do you know the quality was good Josiah?

4/21/2017 11:20:59 PM

Rudolph

Quality was good, not saying the product works, normally when you get a product and the overall quality of packaging and freshness of the contents are good you know they're very particular and put the utmost care in making the product.

4/21/2017 11:35:50 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

So who is the manufacturer of his product Josiah??????

4/21/2017 11:48:25 PM

Rudolph

You don't need to know dunkin, if he were to disclose his manufacturer who stopping anyone else from skipping the middle man mark and buying direct they're are certain legal things that need to be done before he can safely disclose his manufacturer

4/21/2017 11:53:51 PM

Central NY

Lol...donkin..

4/22/2017 12:17:08 AM

Connecticut, USA

Enough with the fowl language and name calling.

4/22/2017 9:31:01 AM

Marion WI

the bottom line is its marks choice to disclose or not disclose his manufacturer.......as well as it is our choice to use or not use his products, if you feel that his choice to not disclose his manufacturer proves some type of guilt or proves he is selling an inferior product....... don't buy it.....pretty simple

4/22/2017 9:51:20 AM

Spring Hope, N.C. - USA

thanks you ken .people show some respect for each other.Dont matter who is right.Lets just be happy.

4/22/2017 2:15:13 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

I apoligize for the fowl language Ken. Too many beer and i find this very disturbing also

4/22/2017 2:39:01 PM

Muddy Waters

https://www.worldwidegiantgrowers.com/chris-kents-seeds.html


New page up for seed selling. This is in its infancy but will grow tremendously in the future . I will donate 5% to the GPC annually starting today of all seed sales on my site.It will start slow as the growing season is underway.But next season it will ROCK!!

4/24/2017 8:15:14 AM

valparaiso, in

If you really want his stuff find the ingredients online to mix them yourself. That is what I did with a different product. Took some trial and error, but it can be done.

4/24/2017 11:49:01 PM

Deer Park WA

Thanks for supporting the community Mark, love the enthusiasim (sP)..
Best in 2017

4/25/2017 1:12:42 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

What is the problem with giving the name of the producer????? This whole situation could end very quickly with a name of a reputable manufacture.Nothing to hide ?Just give the name???

4/25/2017 5:19:57 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

Donkin, i think you are barking up the wrong tree. It doesn't matter what the manufacturer is. I have spent some time researching the process of myco growing. If you look at my diary, i am using many products that have very wide variety of species of microbiology. I think that right now My wife and myself have invested in a high quality 600x microscope to further our knowledge. For years this board has talked about ecto and endo myco... to take it further there are 7 groups of mychorrizae-http://www.davidmoore.org.uk/assets/mostly_mycology/diane_howarth/mycorrhizal%20types.htm

The reason I will not use mark's root keeper is not because the manufacturer is not known...it is because he does not publish the species and props/gram of those species.

That might not matter to a grower that does not go deep into microbiology. Without a doubt, Mark has helped new growers much. I am thinking that at some point many new growers will learn enough to reach for the next level of knowledge.

4/25/2017 5:37:11 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I wish we could have 1/2 hour of edit time on posts to the boards...I usually have to grammar correct my diary entries at least 4 times

4/25/2017 5:38:41 PM

Torrance, Ca.

We's don't care about grammer over hear Bob. :)

4/25/2017 6:05:43 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Donkin, I think you should focus your free time educating more into how to grow a giant pumpkins. Who cares who makes it. Do you go grocery shopping and worry yourself sick on how manufactures all the food you eat? Do you read the label and see all the ingredients they put in the beer you drink? Time to move on Donkin on things that matter more in life then then this useless post of who makes anything we as growers use and where it comes from

4/25/2017 6:24:02 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

Any grower with half a brain should know that it does matter who manufactures the product! Who wants to spend $400 for muddy water....

4/25/2017 9:38:40 PM

Western Massachusetts

Donkin I get your point but this site probably isn't the place to handle grievances you may have. The hobby should stay as friendly as possible, especially if the goal overall is too grow the hobby.

4/25/2017 9:41:46 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

Earthworm Slime..manufactured by $%$ Inc....400 props/grams Rhizoctonia Solani
The ultimate endomychorrizae .....i am sure you have 1/2 a brain Donkin...tell me what is more important....the manufacturer of $%$ or the product content

4/25/2017 9:45:09 PM

Seattle, WA

How does one properly evaluate the quality of a product without knowing the manufacturer or at least seeing some independent testing and verification? Personally, I will not put anything into my garden and soil without knowing all the ingredients and how it was manufactured. I don't care so much whether a myco source is from Premier up in Canada or RTI (there's only a few companies actually making endomycorrhizal spores), but I do care to see that the product is fresh and there's recent testing to support the viability of the product. The Oregon Dept of Ag has done microbial testing and found that you can't trust the guaranteed analysis on these product labels. I have no fight in this game and could really care less. I do think though that companies providing a microbial product should also spend the $ to show testing on viability. That's why right now I'm using and selling Pumpkin Pro from Ron Wallace.

4/27/2017 12:35:47 PM

Springfield, Missouri

With products that contain bacteria or fungi it is possible to determine cell/spore content per volume. It is also possible, using the same procedure, to determine how pure the product is, or if there are other "contaminant" cells/spores.

http://www.waksman-foundation.org/labs/rochester/dilution.htm

Ive tested endomycorrhizae suppliers and some contain very high amounts of Aspergillus or other contaminants... even very big... reputable... sources. This was several years back, hopefully the quality has improved.

A lot of these companies have popped up to dupe uneducated marijuana growers into spending loads of $$$ on products that can't work as advertised/recommended (CalCarb) or that are liquid products thousands of times more expensive than salts they are derived from (RhinoSkin)...

Should they have a right to sell their products; Absolutely. Should they be allowed to make outrageous claims; I don't believe so. Will I ever buy products; No. Let capitalism work.

4/28/2017 2:05:15 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

Thank you Tad.Exact same question i have been asking

4/28/2017 6:33:57 AM

Randlett, Oklahoma

MOpumpkin are you saying calcarb does not work? Can you explain Further? I think many on this site use it and even some growers sell/promote it

4/28/2017 10:44:29 AM

Randlett, Oklahoma

MOpumpkin are you saying calcarb does not work? Can you explain Further? I think many on this site use it and even some growers sell/promote it

4/28/2017 10:44:30 AM

Randlett, Oklahoma

MOpumpkin are you saying calcarb does not work? Can you explain Further? I think many on this site use it and even some growers sell/promote it

4/28/2017 10:44:34 AM

Randlett, Oklahoma

Wow tripple post sorry. Dont know why that happened

4/28/2017 10:45:53 AM

Springfield, Missouri

Product label. https://static.wixstatic.com/media/951e8c_3be648c056de4fefab6b04a279ccdd6c.png/v1/fill/w_430,h_537,al_c,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/951e8c_3be648c056de4fefab6b04a279ccdd6c.png

The product is derived from calcium carbonate. They claim to grind it using a special process which makes it "unstable". From all I can tell this is an unfounded claim. If you look up calcium carbonate on wiki you will see that only 0.0492 grams dissolved per gallon... a tablespoon would be about 40 grams of CalCarb (1000 times more than what can dissolve). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate

4/28/2017 9:44:28 PM

Springfield, Missouri

Think of kosher salt and table salt. Both NaCl but different sizes. Table salt will dissolve more quickly, but ultimately the same amount of salt will dissolve in water regardless of salt particle size.

When the water evaporates the salt will form crystals. The crystals that form will be larger than both table salt and kosher salt. The point I'm making here is that once dissolved it doesn't matter how small the salt grain was... it will act the same after it dissolves.

4/28/2017 9:45:13 PM

Springfield, Missouri

Calcium carbonate, unlike other ionic compounds, has a higher solubility at lower temperatures. This is because water is able to hold more gasses at lower temperatures, thus more carbon dioxide can be in solution. Carbon dioxide reacts with water to form carbonic acid and bicarbonate. This allows for the formation of calcium bicarbonate which is much more soluble than calcium carbonate. Interestingly calcium bicarbonate can only exist in a liquid form, when the water is allowed to evaporate calcium bicarbonate releases carbon dioxide and becomes calcium carbonate once again.

At no point in the process is calcium oxide formed, as the product claims. Calcium oxide can only be created by heating calcium carbonate to 1,544 degrees Fahrenheit or 840 degrees Celsius.

White residue left on the leaf is calcium carbonate. This means that the calcium carbonate didn't enter the leaf, and thus can't contribute to the plants sap solution.

4/28/2017 9:45:40 PM

Springfield, Missouri

I believe studies have been conducted which show calcium acetate to be superior to both calcium carbonate and calcium nitrate in its ability to be assimilated by foliar application.

4/28/2017 9:46:14 PM

50 Acres

Calcium carbonate is mined, in an open pit mine about 40 miles from me. There is alookout point where you can watch the operation. They leave piles of the white rock plus the white powder at the lookout, if people want some . I often wondered if it was good for the garden. They ship it as a slurry all over N. America.

4/28/2017 9:58:44 PM

Springfield, Missouri

Calcium carbonate is also known as lime, it is commonly used to raise soil pH... It has a pH of 9.9. I'm sure that's not great for leaf surface.

4/28/2017 10:16:30 PM

Randlett, Oklahoma

I admit I'm not good at chemical reactions. but I thought it was "precipitated calcium carb" (PCC) as opposed to basic calcium carb.

On an unrelated website they define PCC---
as the PCC process allows SMI to grow crystals of different shapes. The particle formed is dictated by the control of reaction time, temperature, agitation, pressure, rate of carbon dioxide addition, and post-crystallization processing. These shapes—clustered needles, cubes, prisms, rhombohedrons—have different physical properties such as powder density, surface area and oil absorption, which give them outstanding performance in many applications where ground calcium carbonate does not perform as well. 

So you think this is all hogwash and Calcarb is just the same calcium carb you could buy anywhere? and not "unstable" PCC?

If it is not a good product I wish the GPC would not endorse it...that leads me to think its one of the few products that might be legit.

thanks for anymore info

4/28/2017 11:01:47 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

Where is there a listing of what the GPC endorses or doesn't? I don't think such a list exists.

4/29/2017 8:48:52 AM

South East

The original cal carb product that found its way into the growing community was;

https://lithovitfertilizers.wordpress.com/lithovit/

Since their technology is patented, i,m not sure whether calcarb from extreme gardening is the same product or achieves the same results. The litovit site shows field trials that originate in traditional agricultural settings in dozens of countries, so its a thoroughly tested product.

4/29/2017 10:18:13 AM

Randlett, Oklahoma

On the back of the the calcarb bag from xtreme garden there is a gpc endrosed sticker. Along with some other products they have

4/29/2017 10:26:57 AM

Randlett, Oklahoma

Just go to the link that MO posted 4/28 9:44pm. The label clearly says endorsed by gpc. Not sure if a list of products exists. If this is junk the gpc should look into it further while they are looking into mark btw. Good for goose is good for gander. I'm sure rti/ xtreme have paid for that sticker on their products and its not going anywhere.

4/29/2017 10:34:13 AM

Central Illinois

What's the opinion on silica

4/29/2017 11:10:51 AM

Springfield, Missouri

A precipitation reaction occurs when two different salts, say sodium carbonate and calcium nitrate, are added to a solution (water) as the salt concentration increases calcium carbonate literally falls out of solution.

4/29/2017 11:24:32 AM

Springfield, Missouri

And collects on the bottom of the reaction vessel. Calcium carbonate falls out of solution or "precipitates" because it has very very low solubility.

4/29/2017 11:26:57 AM

Springfield, Missouri

As for silica, I would never use a product that claims to be derived from silicon dioxide; this compound is quartz (AKA sand) and is insoluble and nonreactive.

Most products are derived from potassium silicate. That being said I would never by a liquid based silica product. When you buy a liquid based product you are paying for marketing cost (pretty pictures), you are paying for water which adds volume and weight thus increasing shipping and handling cost, and the product is diluted...

I would buy AgSil 16H or a similar product.

4/29/2017 1:40:20 PM

Springfield, Missouri

Four liters of RhinoSkin costs almost $90. Potassium silicate has a molar mass of 154, silicon has a molar mass of 28, therefore potassium silicate is 18.2% silicon by weight. RhinoSkin is 1% silicon by weight. If you wanted to produce your own RhinoSkin you would add 1 gram potassium silicate per 17 milliliters of water.

So by weight RhinoSkin is 5.5% potassium silicate. Four liters weighs roughly 9 pounds. So four liters of RhinoSkin has roughly half a pound of potassium silicate salt in it for $90. I can get a 50 pound bag of AgSil 16H for $209 with shipping included.

RhinoSkin will cost you roughly $180 per pound of potassium silicate
AgSil 16H will cost you roughly $4.18 per pound of potassium silicate

Maybe I should start a consulting biz for growing giant pumpkins... lol jk.

4/29/2017 1:56:50 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

I was picking up supplies at my local grow store and remembered this discussion. It interested me since i have been considering switching to Advanced Nutrients for my hydro grows since Monsanto has purchased both General Hydroponics and Botanicare. There are few other hydro nutrient suppliers i am considering.
I had to take a picture of the label on RhinoSkin.
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=271804

As you can see it is derived from potassium silicate not silicon dioxide, but contains .15% silicon dioxide.

I am not going to say anything as far as it's value to growing and comparative costs to other products. One thing that i find interesting with Advanced Nutrients is their grower help line. I might have to call it.

4/29/2017 4:51:59 PM

Springfield, Missouri

Sorry thought rhino skin was 1% silicate... Looks like it is actually 0.1% . So you would actually be paying $1,800 per pound potassium silicate. Lol

4/29/2017 8:28:26 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

i read it as silicon dioxide is .15%...it really doesn't say what the total percentage of silicon it is. Could there be something else. Might be able to figure it out if all the potassium of the potash K2O .4% is coming from the potassium silicate.

4/29/2017 8:32:52 PM

Springfield, Missouri

Silicon has molar mass of 28. Oxygen has a molar mass of 16. Silicon (28) dioxide (32) has molar mass of 60. So silicon dioxide is %46 silicon multiply that by %0.15 silicon dioxide in Rhino Skin. So %0.07 silicate in Rhino Skin.

Point is if you are buying Rhino Skin you are getting scammed big time.

4/29/2017 9:04:06 PM

Valencia Spain

Advanced nutrients are too expensive for me, Buy cheap like biobizz

4/30/2017 2:26:33 PM

Seattle, WA

MOpumpkins, I think you are right that Calcarb is possibly just finely ground agricultural lime.

Also the Rhino Skin, ProTekt, and most other silica based products are just potassium silicate and you can buy the Agsil 16H like MOpumpkins said. Way cheaper. We sell a lb on our website for example for $20 delivered that will allow you to make almost a gallon to the same concentration.

I think gardeners are getting smarter and starting to look at labels more. I'm hoping it will weed out manufacturers that are attempting to take advantage of customers or make outrageous claims.

5/1/2017 2:30:39 PM

Seattle, WA

How do you guys think Big Mike can afford his mansions and girls? He's shipping in cheap nutrients from China, adding water, marking them up 1000x and then marketing the crap out of them.

I could do the same thing MOpumpkins did with their silica product for their humic acids product or myco product.

5/1/2017 2:33:13 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

Hey Tad. What is the name of your site??? KIS Organics ????

5/2/2017 6:55:44 AM

Central Illinois

https://www.kisorganics.com/

5/2/2017 8:08:27 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

Thank you :)

5/2/2017 11:26:29 AM