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San Diego

I just received my soil test.
It is the worst thing I have ever seen and I don't know how I am going to fix it because everything is high rather than low which is what I was hoping for.

pH: 8.7
OM: 14%
Nitrates 149 ppm
Phosphorus weak bray 76 strong 161
Potassium: 5025 ppm !!!!!!!!!!!
Calcium: 2250 ppm
Mg: 583 ppm
Na: 1585 ppm
S: 523 ppm
Zn: 13.9 ppm
Mn: 13 ppm
Fe 19 ppm
Cu 1.4 ppm
B: 7.7 ppm!!!!!
CEC: 35.9
Base Saturation percent:
K 35.9
M 13.5
Ca 31.4
Na 19.1

I am completely lost. Let me know what I can do.
I was thinking that the manure may have caused some of this. If this is the case, could I just till it in another foot (or two) and water like crazy? If I did this though, would the boron level rise because of the dirt way down there or is this high level contained in the manure? I would like the get rid of the boron, potassium, the sodium, pH, and nitrogen especially and add a few minor elements and some Ca. THESE ARE DEADLY NUMBERS!! I don't think I will be reaching my goal this year.

4/8/2015 12:52:24 PM

San Diego

All I did was add some manure and sulfur....

4/8/2015 12:55:56 PM

JACKSON, WISCONSIN. ; )

What lab? .... retest another sample remove top 2 to 3 inches of soil and pull a deeper sample. Send to a different lab

4/8/2015 1:24:41 PM

JACKSON, WISCONSIN. ; )

A lot of things at work in your soil... So don't freak to hard... Look up agri energy... They tell you soluble and total...

4/8/2015 1:29:00 PM

San Diego

Midwest Lab

4/8/2015 1:42:44 PM

San Diego

Big City Grower, would it be better if I till in the manure as deep as possible to spread out the concentration (better root area too) soak the ground and then take another test? The only thing that will stop me from doing this is that I don't no if this will raise levels such as boron. How can the manure possibly bring the potassium to 5000!!?? There must be another problem. Will take any advice.

4/8/2015 1:48:33 PM

San Diego

I have something to add to this. Take a good look at the numbers on that test. This is a side of the patch that I tilled in about 4 inches of manure to a depth of about 15 inches. I did a test on the other side as well because I had that option. This side tilled in to a shallower depth. Look at these results

OM 16%
N 116
P weak bray 90 strong 94
k 5799
Ca 2008
Na 1863
S 543
Zn 12.9
Mn 11
Fe 18
Cu 1.7
B 8.8
CEC 37.7

Nitrogen and phosphorus are lower but potassium is much higher. Organic matter is higher. CEC is higher. Sodium is higher. Boron...way up there. Most of the other minor elements are lower. I have to blame the manure. I really think I should till this in much farther and soak it.

4/8/2015 2:09:30 PM

Mission Viejo, CA

Did you dig down 8" for your sample?

4/8/2015 3:09:55 PM

Germany

Enough area available for some more pumpkin patches? If YES, then I would recommend you use the top 5" of your current patch as soil ammendment for another patch which could be twice that size, and then till your patch again.

4/8/2015 3:15:28 PM

San Diego

About 4 inches. It was tilled just a few days before though, why would it make a difference? I think I am going spread the manure in as deep as I can and soak it really good and get another test. Does anyone think this will work?

4/8/2015 3:16:19 PM

Germany

amendment...sorry, typo.

4/8/2015 3:16:20 PM

San Diego

No more area, if there was, both would have the same problem. Lol.

4/8/2015 3:17:44 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Boron that high is very toxic. With your CEC being very high, It would take a lot to change anything. I'd send a soil sample to a different Lab. http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/boron_in_vegetables_not_too_little_not_too_much. http://www.soils.wisc.edu/extension/pubs/A2522.pdf

4/8/2015 3:19:21 PM

San Diego

Is the source of the boron the manure or the native dirt?

4/8/2015 3:21:35 PM

Germany

What I would do now:

- Remove top 2" layer from your patch (pile it up in a corner for later use, you can use it in fall instead of adding new manure).
- Till patch again (as deep as possible).
- Spade patch (ca. 10" deep)
- Add some gypsum and dolomitic lime and then till patch again.

...then take a soil sample 8" deep, maybe 10"

- Sow a rye cover crop on those parts of the patch where the plant won´t grow until beginning of June.

4/8/2015 3:24:39 PM

Germany

...oops, meant to say gypsum and epsom salts instead of gypsum and dolomitic lime (your pH is already too high, lime wouldn´t bring any benefit)

4/8/2015 3:26:14 PM

San Diego

Good idea. I am going to go as deep as I can
...maybe if I can fix this problem, it will be more of a benefit. These roots are going to be able to go very very deep...
This is the most crazy soil test I have ever seen...

4/8/2015 4:44:15 PM

San Diego

There is an extra element they tested that I forgot to throw in:

Surprise : 100% brain saturation

4/8/2015 5:54:29 PM

Udine, Italy

First at all re-sample and re-test soil. I think also Na level may be a problem. Test your irrigation water for Na presence and after irrigate strongly to remove B and Na excess. Lower pH with gypsum, and consider to create large holes for translplantig plants to fill with peat mixed with balanced soil. Young plants are more sensitive to sodium and boron excess.

4/9/2015 2:28:31 AM

Germany

As far as I know, gypsum has basically no effect on soil pH. Peat should have much more effect on lowering the soil pH.
The addition of better soil for the plant area is a great suggestion.

4/9/2015 5:03:28 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Reclamation and
regeneration of boron
in high-boron soils
https://ucanr.edu/repositoryfiles/ca3810p35-72374.pdf

4/9/2015 6:08:59 AM

San Diego

pH is something that I have already been working on...it is just worse than I thought. I think the problem here is that I just got a manure test because I took the test after I put 4 inches of manure in (never doing that again) and I don't think I tilled deep enough. This will explain the high salts potassium, nitrogen, etc, and would explain why the phosphorus seems just right. I am going to do what Pumpking advised and till as far as the tiller will allow. I am going to then flush out as much as I can with the sprinkler and take another test maybe in a few weeks so that the manure has some time to stabilize. I will then have about two weeks before the plant goes out in which I will put the last amendments in.

4/9/2015 11:16:27 AM

San Diego

Boron in the water?
...you really are a PumpkinBrat. Lol

4/9/2015 11:21:55 AM

Eastern Pennsylvania

My first reaction was that you got poor mixing and the small portion that the lab used out of what you sent them happened to be just the new manure. But then I thought, if that is so, then how could the pH be 8.7? And as I type this now I think, ok, when the lab gets the sample they take chunks from it for each test. So maybe the chunk used for pH testing was your natural soil and some of the other crazy numbers were mostly manure..

What is the pH of the second sample?

Using a different lab is a good idea, just to be safe. But I think the sample itself is skewing the results. If you really want to know what is going on, do some more mixing and then send one sample from your patch, one sample straight from the manure pile, and a third sample of the regular soil pulled from your lawn.

4/9/2015 1:49:28 PM

San Diego

Sorry, I forgot to add the pH the second time. The second sample was 9!! And I think the reason for the pH is the manure because I have an old lousy soil pH meter that is not accurate, but it tells be that the manure is pretty high. It also smelled slightly like ammonia and ammonia is very high pH. The second sample was not tilled in that deep and the pH was higher. You are right about the manure, I am working on tilling very deep today...

The organic matter says enough itself. This is an area of the yard that has not been touched since...almost as long as I am old...

4/9/2015 2:54:33 PM

East Jordan, MI

Sampling is the biggest margin of error for a soil test
Every lab should have a requested sample depth -- usually 8 inches. This is the depth you need to sample. They base all of their calculations on that depth (parts per million). Additionally, you should sample multiple locations spread out evenly over the entire area -- I use no less than 10 cores and mix it well. On top of that if you get a "hot spot" where the sample has a large concentration of a particular addition, it will skew the test BIG TIME. because you are sending and they are testing a small amount of soil even a teaspoon of some amendment will really change the test. I generally send out test in a few months after adding anything.

So bottom line. Don't freak out. retesting is never a bad thing. Make sure you sample properly. MIxing in deeper or removing a little of what you put on as suggested above may help. But I'm betting on a bad sample and everything will be ok.

4/11/2015 9:18:32 PM

San Diego

Thanks for the help, cntryboy. I would have done this WAY earlier if I knew I would I would be growing. I am going to mix it well, flush it out, get a deeper sample. If I find that the numbers are still high, I will just worry about the balance and do a better job next year.

4/11/2015 9:49:32 PM

San Diego

Can someone please explain this manure before soil test thing. I am really not understanding this and can't find anything on the web about it. Obviously I needed to put the manure on in the Fall because it needs time to leach out on salts, nitrogen and high whatever. I did not plan on growing in the Fall, so I put in on in the Spring. But everyone knows "not to get a soil test after tilling in manure because it will be skewed and not tell what is actually in the soil." Well, isn't the manure actually in the soil? The numbers will be massive, but how can they be wrong? I was told that my pH is most likely not 8.7 and the manure is throwing it off, but the manure in the soil and I got a soil test. This sounds crazy to me, as if I poured gasoline into my drinking water and someone told me it was okay to drink the water because the water would not kill me, just the gasoline.

I want to clear this before I make any major changes. It will really help me a lot in making my calculations before doing what is advised above. I am trying to solve the issues in the soil so I can have some fun, but some people are telling me that the very numbers on the test are lies. That makes no sense to me!
Thank for the help! I have searched the internet, youtube, the grower diaries, and the message board, for days and have not found any answers.

4/15/2015 5:59:16 PM

Alberta

The weather over winter will help breakdown your manure! Spring manure might be still "hot"..best to do fall soil test..the amount of manure is the biggest thing to watch and how fresh..they say never more than two inches is best

4/15/2015 6:21:26 PM

Whitehall Montana

My potassium is 1250 and Phos is 200.I was told to add 10 cubic yards of compost,no manure or very little.My PH is 8.3 and added 10 lbs of sulfur.That dropped my ph to 7.4.The folks I was getting my manure from have a stack that's 4 years old and the first 2 years,I took off the top,the second year they used a loader and took from the bottom of the pile where everything is more concentrated so it did hurt my numbers.The potassium my be mostly locked up in the soil so it may or may not wash out to a good number.Now adding the 10 yards of compost may help with the high numbers.This was for 1000 sq ft patch.Holland giants may be able to help with your soil test as well as everyone else.The PGPGA has an article written on soil tests from pumpkin plots that may be of interest to you

4/15/2015 6:33:16 PM

Alberta

Your K looks way out of balance..you need to get somebody to run your numbers on Bry's calculator..its posted on (team pumpkin website)..I did and added like 200 lbs of gypsum per 1,000 sq ft..your going to need epsum as well..your K is way high!

4/15/2015 6:40:35 PM

Alberta

peat seems to help lowering ph

4/15/2015 6:45:34 PM

San Diego

Lol, you are not understanding the question. I have already researched all the things that you have said, plus the PGPGA soil study article and I know my numbers took a trip to the moon, and I want to fix it, but people are telling my I can't because my soil test is lying.

To make it more simple: I got the test and see the massive numbers, so I instantly release I need to spread the manure much deeper to thin the concentration and then leach it out. This will lower the OM level and the CEC which will make it easier for me to quickly leach out some elements. I then want to add gypsum so that I can both fix the Ca:Mg ratio for better drainage and for the plant, and also so that the gypsum will help pull the salt down. Then I need to take another test, and fix all the ratios. But all this is done based on the soil test. Then people start telling me that the soil test information is useless because it is being influenced by the manure. THE MANURE IS IN THE SOIL!! How can the information be worthless. Can I just continue with my plans and be successful?

Imagine this: Someone puts soil amendments in and then takes a soil test. Results come back and then someone else says the results are useless because the amendments are affecting the results, and the soil is actually much different. I am thinking....What????? The amendments are supposed to affect the results!!

4/15/2015 7:31:29 PM

San Diego

However, I do appreciate the attempts to help very much!!

4/15/2015 7:34:05 PM

50 Acres

If the soil is all out of proportion. I would just grow a pumpkin, and adjust the soil this fall, after a soil test. You will make so many adjustments this spring , you wontknow which is the correct choice. In my opinion.

4/15/2015 7:53:06 PM

Alberta

Exactly right..all the ferts you add don't change the numbers instantly..the manure thing I equate to hot manure will skewer your results

4/15/2015 8:23:53 PM

Alberta

humic,gypsum,epsum salts,manure,sulphate of potash just about everything breaks down at a different pace

4/15/2015 8:26:38 PM

San Diego

I did not add anything, it was an example. Lol
Let say...after 3 months?
I am just going to continue and see what happens. I will be the one the answer my question. By next year I will be ready for sure.
Thanks anyway!

4/15/2015 8:30:47 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Do a web search on CEC! It takes a lot to change anything when your CEC is high like yours is 35.9... Higher the number, the more it takes. Other than that, plow it under deep, then till it deep as you can. Plant on it and hope for the best

4/15/2015 9:29:06 PM

San Diego

I have.

4/15/2015 9:50:35 PM

Charlotte,mi48813

Just grow a kin this year"B"OTCH.Lol. Have alittle fun and chill. next year learn from your mistakes.This is a not life altering event. end of thread.............?

4/15/2015 9:52:19 PM

San Diego

Not the planting I mean, but the CEC.

4/15/2015 9:52:50 PM

Upa Creek, Mo

Once the soil temps really warm, the structure changes daily including the hot manure example. That is why it would be skewed now.. Hope that helps with your confusion.

4/15/2015 10:14:34 PM

Bethlehem CT

Somebody, I was wondering have you tested a random spot where no ammendments were added to the soil? The reason I ask is that I am not so sure that all of your problem came from what you added. Your soil test states a 14% organic matter content. Which is high, but you certainly aren't growing in straight manure. You guys have been in a drought for the past 3 years, anything added to your soil in that time is probably still there unless you have been soaking the heck out of it. It is often difficult for us east coast growers to advise for soil problems where you are located. Your situation is foreign to us. We are fighting the opposite battle. We are trying desperately to keep nutrients in the root zone. Where you are often more concerned with washing them away.

4/16/2015 7:38:49 AM

San Diego

I haven't, but I have already made plans to test an area nearby that is not amended.

4/16/2015 12:39:51 PM

San Diego

I am pretty sure its the same price if I throw in an extra bag, the way its down with Midwest Labs

4/16/2015 12:40:56 PM

San Diego

done*

4/16/2015 12:45:26 PM