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Sacramento, Ca

Below are two soil samples. The first is where my soil was last fall. The second is where I need it to be. My patch is aprox 330 sqft. What do I need to do to get my soil in the range of the second sample?

Current soil numbers:

Organic Matter 2.3%
Nitrogen (NO3N)35ppm
Phosphorus (Weak Bray)55ppm
Phosphorus (NaHCO3P)79ppm
Potassium 495ppm
Magnesium 333ppm
Calcium 1302ppm
Manganese 8ppm
CEC 11.2
Base Saturations - K=11.3%, MG=24.5%, CA=58.3%

Target Soil Numbers:

Organic Matter 21.5%
Nitrogen (NO3N)190ppm
Phosphorus (NaHCO3P)223ppm
Potassium 1832ppm
Magnesium 333ppm
Calcium 1907ppm
Manganese 616ppm
CEC 25
Base Saturations - K=25%, MG=26%, CA=50%

2/13/2010 9:24:47 AM

Cedar Lake, IN.

I like your soil sample better than your target soil numbers. I would raise the organic matter and Calcium. You need to know what your pH is.
I've only been doing this for one year so let the experts tell you what to do.

2/13/2010 10:43:16 AM

Decatur, IL

I'm not a soils expert by any means either, but where did you get the figures for your target soil numbers? Your target base saturations are further out of whack than your current numbers. Base saturations, ideally, should be in the following range: K 2-5%, Mg 12-18% and Ca 65-75%. Without knowing your pH, you need to add either lime or gypsum to raise your calcium. Also, like kurty says, you need to raise your organic matter by adding compost, manure, cover crops, etc. However, you need to raise your organic matter fairly gradually. Also, you don't need your organic matter at 21.5%. 8-10% is plenty high. Concentrate on getting your base saturation levels balanced. I would contact wherever you got your soil analysis done, and see if they can give you advice. I get my soil tested at Midwest Labs in Nebraska through Agri-Energy resources. The Agri-Energy people give good advice on what and how much soil amendments to use.

2/13/2010 11:15:37 AM

Colorado Springs, CO

Texas Plant and Soil Lab in Edinburg, TX, employ a CO2-extraction method to perform many of their tests. Contact them, ask them, consider them for a differing method to fully derive those numbers you want to know.

2/13/2010 12:01:25 PM

Sacramento, Ca

My ph is 6.9. Those numbers from the second sample are a heavy hitters soil. A third party gave me the report. The pumpkin grown from said heavy hitter was over 1500#.

2/13/2010 12:11:22 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Hey Richard, hopefully John Vincent will see this post and reply or send you a message on his thoughts.

Keep in mind there is no "fix-all" or "quick-fix" when you are trying to balance or correct soil numbers. Slow and steady will with the race and you will be able to adjust your soil over time.

2/13/2010 1:31:00 PM

South East

If you add a couple of bags of gypsum, a yard or two of composted manure and compost, and some blood and bonemeal youd be fine.

2/13/2010 4:32:57 PM

Cedar Lake, IN.

Midnight Gardener, I like your pH number (6.9). The heavy hitters' k is high because his mg is too high. His Ca I believe is way too low. Focus on what the Cooks (Tina & Frank) have said.

2/13/2010 6:52:56 PM

Minnesota

When I first started growing I got a few of the HH soil tests looking for those "magic numbers", what I saw was numbers that varied greatly. It was at that point I realized that the worst thing I could do was try to duplicate the results of another grower by duplicating their soil. We need to remember soil in more then minor and major elements; every grower's soil has an unique texture, composition, and biology. If all of those soil components are the same as the HH then coping his soil test may be successful for you. My advice is to get your soil to a point where it is well balanced, then you can make minor changes based on growth, tissue samples, and results.
You got some good advice above, raise the Ca, N, P, and organic matter and you will be in good shape.

2/13/2010 10:40:22 PM

Sacramento, Ca

Thanks for all of the great advice everyone. Now the next question is this; How do you determine how much of what to add? Lets take organic matter for example. My soil is at 2.3%. Lets say I want it at 8%. I know that my space is a little over 300 sqft so to make the math simple lets say it is 300 sqft. I also know that when I originally built my patch I put 11 yards of dirt in it. So I am thinking 8% of 11, which is .88 yards. But since I already have 2.3% organic matter then the real number should be 8% minus 2.3% which is 5.7% which comes out to .627 yards of organic matter I need. So obviously this is relativly in line with what the cooks said. Now that I made my head hurt, how do you come up with the numbers for the other amendments? The point being, I would like to be able to look at my numbers and be able to correctly apply the right amount or at least come close. This question assumes though that there would be some "baseline" numbers to shoot for. As Chad said, everyones soil is different , this seems to throw a serious wrench in the works.

2/14/2010 9:59:37 AM

South Hero, VT

Midnight,

I"ll pass on advice I just received:
Do your soil test; do your best to improve your soil through aged manure, composted leaves, what have you; grow your pumpkins; test your soil in the fall; add amendments.

Do your best the first year, and try to do better every year after that.

Remember, this is supposed to be fun. Slow and easy grows a big pumpkin, and also improves your patch.

That's the advice I just got. MinnesotaChad and the others also just gave good advice.

Last year I grew a 450lb fruit, this year I'm aiming for a 750lb beauty.

See you at the weigh-off.

Steve.

2/14/2010 3:49:43 PM

Minnesota

Please someone correct me if I have any of these concepts wrong, self taught here:
% organic matter is calculated on the % of organic matter in a giving space. You will need to figure the volume of the space you are dealing with. Soil tests are usually calculated from a depth of 6 inches. That means you will find the volume of space 30 ft wide, 10 feet long by 6 inches deep. 2.3% is currently OM you stated that you want to change that to 8%.
To figure out what changes a fertilizer source will have on your soil. You need to look at the fert values; a 10(N)-0(P)-0(K) valued fert contains 10% nitrogen by weight. So if you apply 50 pounds of that fertilizer, you are applying 5 pounds of nitrogen.
When a soil test lists 35 ppm N that means your soil contains 70 pounds of nitrogen per acre (you simply double ppm to change it into pounds per acre).
So if you apply 50 pounds of 10-0-0 to 300 square feet, or 5 pounds of nitrogen to 300 square feet. You will need to figure out how many pounds of nitrogen you just applied if that was an acre. 1 acre is 43560 square feet which is 145.2 times large then your pumpkin patch (300). So if you applied 5 pounds of nitrogen you multiple 5 x 145.2. You just applied 726 pounds per acre of nitogen to you 300 square foot patch. You take that number divide it in half 726 = 363 or you just increased your soil test by 363 ppm, added to the old number (35) your soil now contains 398 ppm of nitrogen. (this was just an example please do not add this made up fert)
For Ca, Mg, K, Na, and H you can then calculate your % base saturations, these numbers are important to help you find that well balanced soil that people talked about in your post. Check out this link or google CEC or calculating % base saturations to learn more.
http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~blpprt/bobweb/BOBWEB13.HTM
I hope this makes sense, let me know if anything does not.

2/14/2010 6:49:45 PM

Citrus Heights, CA

Midnight,
Please plan on attending the California Giant Pumpkin Growers forum. It's on Sat. March 6, 2010 10am to 3pm.
At 9014 Bruceville road
Elk Grove, Ca 95758
More info www.yourcsd.com or call Heather at 916-405-5300
One yard of compost will raise your om by about 3% on a 330 sq ft patch.
If this was my patch I would go buy 2yards of "nortech gold" Green waste compost from the placer county landfill and till in along with 50lbs of gypsum ASAP. I would recheck soil test the first of april. Your not that far from were you want to be. Please look me up at elk grove.
Ron Root

2/14/2010 11:56:36 PM

Sacramento, Ca

Thanks Ron, I will be attending for sure. I got the info in the mail for the growers forum a while back.

2/15/2010 8:28:44 AM

Midwest

MinnesotaChad

Organic matter is measured by measuring how much CO2 is given off when oxidising the soil or, how measuring how much oxidising agent is used in the process. Also, OM is measured by heating up the soil (twice) and measuring the weight loss of that process. Labs can measure within .05% +/- but I doubt you would be able to get an accurate measurement unless you have the equipement. For us non-technical people, we estimate the affect of our soil ammendments. I can tell you personally that those heavy hitters have years of composted leaves/manures, humus and other ammendments in their soil that are all decomposing at different stages producing a significant amount of soil biology. So, adding a significant amount of OM will benefit your soil but too much will be counter-productive. I would agree with Tina and Frank Cook and VTSteve that a couple of yards of "GOOD" compost would help you! You can't worry about what percent OM that will result. But, you can have confidence that you have given your pumpkin a good bed to grow in this year. Have you considered applying some humus this year? I would, it's the end-product of decomposition of OM and has lots of good effects on soil.
BTW, not only are you adding 'nutrients' by adding composted (OM) but, you are adding good biology also. The biology also is a big part of the puzzle and you should think about that - give your biology lots of food.
Greg

3/9/2010 2:16:06 PM