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GreatFalls,Montana

if you add some sandier soil to my garnden it's really got lot's o clay will it help amend it?

4/23/2007 10:44:53 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

It'll make a better brick. Clay + sand = brick.

Add organic matter to clay & in time it will improve.

If you do want to try a mineral addition, you'll need an aggregate that is coarser than sand. Soilmaster & Turface are calcined clay particles that are sized the same as Oil-Dry (same company). This is the smalles mineral aggregate I would recommend in clay. Pricey though.

4/23/2007 11:29:08 PM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

I have heard that you can add coarse sand, i.e. concrete sand. I have thought a lot about trying this myself, but a am scared of making "bricks" as Steve puts it.

4/24/2007 11:57:55 AM

Long Island,New York

OK...I've heard this advice for 8 years now...clay plus sand= brick. Well, I have never done it and dont pretend to have done it but I don't believe it. Clay alone would be what....pottery? By adding sand you don't make concrete. Im SURE you're adding other things as well like organics and gypsum. Noone just adds sand, mixes, compacts and lets it dry to the point of hardness. I added clay to my sand soil and didn't get concrete. I don't buy it for a minute.Not one minute. I'd add sand....and leaves, and gypsum and all the other stuff we talk about....with no worries.

4/24/2007 3:10:11 PM

Utah

I really hate to agree with glenn... lol
and in the past I think I have posted that clay plus sand = brick.
but ... I added sand to my clay based soil every year... each pumpkin gets a base of about 50-100 lbs worth of sand. I don't remove it at the end of the season. After adding amendments and tilling, I can't even tell where the sand was.

... but I'm not going to add anything to your garnden you'll have to do that yourself. "if you add ..." :)

OM, organic matter, is the key - sand shouldn't hurt.

4/24/2007 4:33:00 PM

San Jose garysand@pacbell.net

Soils
Adobe bricks are made of native soil and possibly
an organic additive. To make durable bricks, you
must know which soil types to use.
In New Mexico, soils commonly called “adobe
soils” are not well-suited to brick making. They contain
far too much clay. They tend to shrink and crack
severely as they dry. Desirable soils for brick-making
are those classified as loamy sands, sandy loams or
sandy clay loams. These textural names are given to
soils that contain sand, clay, and silt within the ranges
of percentages shown in table 1.
Table 1. Composition of soils that make good adobe brick.
Soil Textural Percent Percent Percent
Name Sand Clay Silt
Loamy sand 70 to 85 0 to 15 0 to 30
Sandy loam 50 to 70 15 to 20 0 to 30
Sandy clay loam 50 to 70 20 to 30 0 to 30
There are three important points to remember about
these soil decriptions. 1. In none of the classifications
does the clay content of the soil exceed 30 percent, or
roughly one-third of the ingredients, and the major
portion of each class, never less than 50 percent, is
sand. 2. If you cannot classify the soil yourself, ask
someone with soil classification experience to guide
you (a county extension agent, Soil Conservation Service
personnel, or U.S. Geological Survey personnel)
or get advice from someone who has had local experience
at brick-making. 3. If you cannot classify the soil
or get it classified, then make a trial batch of bricks

4/24/2007 7:24:38 PM

San Jose garysand@pacbell.net

Do:
• Start small—until you learn the right blend.
This may take months of experimenting.
• Use soils with high sand and low clay contents.
• Use a stiff mix.
• Select the time of year when the chances are best
for a long drying season. Curing is important.
Don’t:
• Build with adobe in areas subject to overflow or
excessive rain or snowfall.
• Build with adobe unless labor is cheap or free.
Adobe bricks are cheap only when labor is cheap.



http://cahe.nmsu.edu/pubs/_g/G-521.pdf

if you really want to make a brick

lol

4/24/2007 7:27:19 PM

President - GPC

Great Post!

4/24/2007 7:58:18 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Four generations back our family owned & operated a brickyard in Amherst, MA. All they used was clay, sand, water, molds, fire & labor. But it was a special clay.

My point should have been so literal I guess.

Adding organic material will be the BEST way but not the ONLY way to improve clay.

4/24/2007 11:24:25 PM

GreatFalls,Montana

thanks for the replies

4/24/2007 11:43:16 PM

Phoenix, AZ

Take it from me. I have dealt with my concrete-turned-quality-soil. Organic Matter in tremendous amounts. I did like 6" and tilled in at least 15" deep. Took time but it was easier being it is only a 200 SF patch.

4/25/2007 1:25:02 AM

southwest MO

If you add sand, add coarse stuff that does not pack well even when wet and add LOTS! You have to get the % of sand to around 50-70% to get what your after. Depending how big your patch is we are probably talking dump truck(s) loads. While doing this add in LOTS of compost. Again we are probably talking yards...
To put 6" sand on 1000 sq.ft would be roughly 18.5 yrds. To work this material in you will need some deep tillage. Maybe a ripper or chizel plow that goes at least 1' deep. If you do this you should have a good platform on which to build into the future.

4/26/2007 1:08:50 PM

San Jose garysand@pacbell.net

Steve I meant no harm, i appreciate everything you do for people on here, but I have seen this reference to making brick quite a few times on here and was really curious how it was really done, so I posted the "how to"

Gary

4/26/2007 6:08:15 PM

Sloughhouse, CA

Down the road from us Van Vleck Ranch sells clay soil for bricks. When you look on the soils map there is a Van Vleck soil.

4/28/2007 10:08:36 PM

Sloughhouse, CA

I went on the Soil Service Resource Lab at UC Davis and found the soil map of my area in Ca.This is the web site. http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/ka-map/htdocs/?map=casoil&cps=-2074222.8125,93884.30859375,250000

4/28/2007 10:31:18 PM

Puyallup, WA

The average gardener has no idea the amounts of manure and compost it takes to make even a barely noticeable change in soil texture. I started with stiff clay six years ago in my 8,500 sq.ft patch....120 X70. I have conservatively added 500 yards...and "heavy" on the conservatively.....of TAGRO(sludge,sawdust and sand), home made compost, horse, cow and chicken manure and composted 20 yr. old horse manure. My soil still looks like "clay soil"...just a little more crumbly. You'd think that by now it would appear to be dark loam....no way...still light brown clay!!

5/17/2007 3:33:04 PM

Midwest

Can I make a suggestion? Layer the good stuff over the clay soil and keep doing that over and over. I think clay soils are ok but these pumpkins really like that crumbly composted manure soil.

5/30/2007 6:42:38 PM

San Diego

I've only burned up one tranny in my mantis trying to get clay "softened" It took two seasons of amendment and frustration but I've got Corn flourishing in it now. The clay acts as a moisture resevoir down deep and the corn is loving it. Don't ask about the tomatoes...they're out of control. I used compost and sand and wood chips and just about anything in a 10X30 plot. Let it rot over winters and tilled it in. Not for the faint of heart but it works.

6/8/2007 2:42:38 PM