From

Location

Message

Date Posted

NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

I know what both of these are and I know the differences. If both of these are used for water retention (and several other reasons) Why do some growers use both for starting their seeds?

12/15/2005 8:23:17 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

We can't prove that one or the other is better so to keep the nay-sayers at bay, we use both. LOL Maybe it's just that one makes up what the other is lacking? I find that straight perlite is too loose & straight vermiculite packs too tight.

A lot of university trials have proven time & again that when things are criticial, the best mix is:

Equal parts (by volume)

Fine Milled Peat
Vermiculite
Perlite
Water

Because the same vessle can be used to measure out each ingredient this is a timeless & brainless formula that yields consistant results. That blend seems to offer the ideal rate of oxygen exchange & has rarelt fostered Pythium on me. With both AGs & (mostly) other seeds I HAVE had Pythium problems with every other mix we've tried at one time or another.

Add a little VAM Mycorrhizal inoculant & you're good to go.

12/15/2005 9:44:37 AM

NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

This is way out of my field and you know more than I so I will ask you. I just researched Pythium and read that "The fungus is well known to inhabit field soil peat, soilless potting mixes, sand, and sediments from ponds and streams". So why go with a non soil starter? What does soil have that Pythium does not favor it? Another that I read was "An examination of the roots of clinic samples exhibiting above ground symptoms of root problems often reveals little Pythium mycelium or spores. In such cases, mild stunting can be quantified and shown to decrease plant yield and quality". If it can decrease plant yield and quality why chance it? Can Pythium be found in the garden? One last question please, Besides what you have mixed yourself can it be stopped without the use of fungicides?

12/15/2005 10:58:10 AM

NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

My apologies, the first paragraph in your first response answered my initial question. Thanks. But please continue with the Pythium, it is fascinating.

12/15/2005 11:04:10 AM

valparaiso, in

i would just like to say that since i've been using the vermiculite, perlite, and peat moss combo i've had a 100% germination success rate. i'm 170 for 170.

12/16/2005 4:24:34 AM

NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

Gritch, do you ever have any problems with Pythium or any other problems associated with seed starting? I am going to give it a try this year. Tremor seems to be so knowledgeable in this field. He makes these threads so interesting. I have several more questions for him. These guys make learning so much easier.

12/16/2005 1:09:24 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Here is a list of soilborne pathogens & the diseases they cause that I found:

Gourd Cucurbita spp.

Fusarium moniliforme
Fusarium oxysporum f. sp. cucumerinum wilt
Fusarium solani
Phytophthora cactorum fruit rot
Phytophthora capsici fruit rot
Phytophthora citrophthora
Phytophthora nicotianae foliage and root rot
Pythium damping off, seedling blight, cottony leak, fruit, blossom end and root rot
Rhizoctonia solani root and belly rot, damping off and web blight
Sclerotinia sclerotiorum fruit and stem rot
Sclerotium rolfsii Southern blight, fruit rot
Thielaviopsis basicola black root rot
Verticillium wilt


More specific to Pythium here is a picture of Pyhtium damping off disease of cucurbita seedlings:

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/cucurbit/rootseedlings/11.3.html

Pythium on Waremelon:

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/southtex/info/Diseases/wd24.html

Pyhtium likes warm wet soils so I like a starter mix that drains well but still ancors seedlings. There are other damping off causal pathogens (rhizoctonia likes cooler soils) but Pythium is the one I've mostly encountered. Here is another link that I found very informative on the subject:

http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/crops/az1029.pdf

12/16/2005 1:43:40 PM

NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

How can damping off occur when you are working with seeds? Are the spores available in sterile soil? I have always used sterile soil and sterile containers. If it doesn't then where does the spores come from? What treatments are available if damping off occurs in the garden? You can't just throw away the soil?

12/18/2005 7:48:01 AM

Norton, MA

If worst comes to worst you can fumigate your patch. Works great, but there sure are some catches. Anybody who wants more info can e-mail me. AleX Noel.

12/18/2005 6:28:45 PM

valparaiso, in

RootbeerMaker, i have had no problems with anything since i started using this mixture last winter. just make sure that you keep the mixture moist, but not soaking wet.

12/19/2005 3:10:59 AM

Garden State Pumpkins

The seeds themselves are good carriers of fusaria and should be soaked in a peroxide solution prior to germination.

12/19/2005 8:28:27 AM

NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

I am slowly researching and reading the names of the pathogens that Tremor has listed. Wish there was an easier way to read good information. Can all of these pathogens be taken care of the same way, with the vermiculite, perlite and peat moss? What is fine milled peat moss anyway?

12/19/2005 9:23:44 AM