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Taber, Alberta

I was wondering why my farm plants were growing funny this year. Aside from the crappy weather, maybe I messed things up with the soil last fall. In a 40x40 garden, I put in about 14 yards of mushroom compost. First the good news, my ph went from 8.5 to 7.6, and om from 3.9 to 4.7%
The problem is, or at least in my opinion, the EC went from 0.89 to 2.86 and the lab says my boron may be toxic at 2.0 ppm
Any ideas what I can do? I've got a ton of coffee grounds ready to till in when my plants are done in a few weeks, plus a lot of 10 year old horse manure. My first instict was to add gypsum and and maybe zeolite to lower the EC. I was going to add fresh horse manure as I can get as much as I want, now I may back off of that.Am I on the ball here? Here's the rest of the #'s. Any help is appreciated.
Alan

N 14 ppm
P > 60
K > 600
S > 40
CA 5770
MG 679
FE 31.3
CU 2.58
ZN 11.8
B 2.0
MN 11.0
Cl 40
Ph 7.6 OM 4.7% EC(dS/m)2.86

9/2/2005 10:21:33 PM

Western NY

- 2.86 is on the higher side, but nothing to worry about (yet). the spike came from the mushroom compost, and that's what the plants are likely having a tough time dealing with.

-you're on the right track with the gypsum. lots of it. hope for lots of rain too.

-don't worry about the horse manure, but put the gypsum down first.

- Boron shouldn't be toxic at that level, but i'm assuming that's also a jump from your last test. nothing you can do about it at this point. the higher pH should keep a tad bit of it more insoluble, but jus ta fraction. just keep an eye on the B content of whatever you put in from now on.

what did you notice different with the plants this year?

9/2/2005 10:34:05 PM

Taber, Alberta

Thanks Andy. I did a cheapo test last year on this patch, so I don't have boron numbers, but my home patch was at 1.4, and it didn't get as much mushroom compost and is only 2 miles away.

Besides the flooding in June, my 913 Perez grew strangely, with sometimes 2-3 male flowers at one spot, and the plant sometimes looked deformed early in the season (tall and skinny leaves and stalks, odd shaped tips of vines) When the main vine started to appear, there were 4-5 of them and most of them were mangled for a few weeks. Once July hit,it was fine, except for all of the aborts on the 913 and the 895 Hester (none set until the first of August). I had one female fused to the vine it shared, and several other deformed females. I had 2 females on the 895 Hester abort before they even opened. The plants looks great now, just slow growth. Even with later plantings last year, and 2 hail storms that almost wiped me out, I was able to get almost 600 lbs off of 3 pumpkins on the 568 Perez (I went for quantity, not quality). Now, I'm struggling to hit 150 and only getting 5-7 pounds per day with one pumpkin/squash per plant, whereas my home patch 716 blew out at 450 pounds on Aug 10th, so it can't all be weather.

I share the patch with my friend, and some of his bean plants look great, but most are deformed and tiny. Only about 1/4 of his corn germinated, his brocoli is only leaves. Tomatos are small and few. Beets and potatos are great. My tomatos are huge and plentiful at home and were only planted a week earlier.

con't

9/2/2005 11:02:20 PM

Taber, Alberta

We have had several cool nights (2-4 degrees celcius) in August, which could be a factor, but I had those last year as well. Also, I built my hoophouse a little too well to stand up to the winds and retarded the root growth in the spring, but I'm figuring things should move a little faster now as the roots are way past the plants now. Let me know if this is too confusing.
I'm trying to get all my stuff ready once my plants come out as our window of opportunity of good weather can sometimes be brutally short in the fall, plus my wife's having our third child in mid-October and I might be busy with other things.
Thanks
Alan
ps,Andy, still looking for e-mailed soil test results?

9/2/2005 11:02:32 PM

Long Island,New York

Flooding, hail, cold nights, and aborts on a plant known for abort problems.....yes...definitely the soil.

9/3/2005 2:00:43 PM

Taber, Alberta

Hey, I know, but I had to ask once I got the soil results. To be fair, the hail was last year.

9/3/2005 2:39:36 PM

Long Island,New York

LOl....with every flippant remark should come some constructive advice/opinions so here goes....first off, if you consider that 913Perez a dud from the start, I see nothing unusual. 895Hesters abort like crazy..thats the nature of that beast. Ask anyone who's grown one. Secondly, you probably had enough setbacks at the perfectly wrong times to account for significant lack of success. The farm patch vs home patch as far as "babying" is concerned could be the reason alone. Its impossible to treat them like home if its not real close. The other veggies, well....how did other growers in the area do? This year here stinks with veggies...ask anyone. I have unique issues but in general its been a tough year here. Perhaps everyone did better last year? And, I've never seeen a late set fruit do as well as a timely set...Im sure it happens, but not normally.
Getting back to the farm patch, I'm sure there's quite a few instances where it didnt quite get the same treatment. An extra patch or farm patch may help your odds in an OK weather year, but in a bad weather year its more of a heartbreak and potential waste of time........G

9/3/2005 4:43:51 PM

Taber, Alberta

Thanks LIpumpkin. We're famous for our corn here. Hot hot days, cool nights, which sweetens things up. One good thing for pumpkins, one bad. His corn is marginal, but the other corn in the area is great. That seems to be the only discrepancy. I'm glad you posted that last one, it kinda puts things into perspective and now I'm thinking more clearly. No one around here is having a great year for giants, although there are very few of us. I planted the 913 because my 1097 Beachy never germinated and I figured it would make me feel better to plant it(1097 Beachy x 842 Eaton)
Yes, it was a screwed up year and I guess I'll just learn as much as I can about how to do things better. We were just wondering if we screwed things up with the massive amounts of mushroom compost. It was probably just combinations of overall bad luck at the wrong time, and maybe the higher salts as well. The biggest thing we need in our climate is soil heating cables and heaters in the spring inside a fullsize hoophouse, and I've been promised electricity for them for next spring.
Hey, I'll probably still have the biggest pumpkins in town so I can't call the season a write off, even if they are only 200lbs.
Thanks again for the help.
Alan

9/3/2005 5:58:23 PM

Montoursville, PA

An inch or two of mushroom compost which is largly horse poopers would be a nice yearly addition. Seems to me you did what I did three years ago. I am still backing off from having, to much manure and mushroom compost, in one dose. The net result, for me, was the same result as over fertilization with any fertilizer.

9/3/2005 9:52:24 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Alan,

"YES" to the Gyspum to leach those salts.

Like Doc said, use Mushroom compost sparingly. High in Potash is good but high in Salts is bad.

9/4/2005 8:21:27 AM

Phoenix, AZ

I have to pipe up here. I see some confusion regarding EC. EC is NOT sodium (which is a component of table salt). To explain a bit better:

Being that I fought this in my soil already, I have some insight on "salts"

First, we should not consider Na a salt. It is a cation and as such when it is in our soil, it (as a general rule) attaches itself to the negatively charged soil/organic particles. Because of this, mostly, it will not be suspended in water.

The items that we need to be concerned with and truly make up salts are: chlorides, sulfates, nitrates, carbonates and truly any molecule that is negatively charged. These are anions and are most likely to be held in water suspension becuause they are repelled by the negatively charge soil. Anions are what cause the issue with electrical conductivity (EC).

If you have too much Na, your soil is sodic.
If you have too much salt, your soil is saline.

These two problems are totally unrelated. But you can have both at once, like I did ;)

9/11/2005 11:43:30 AM