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Brighton, MI

I just moved, I had been working the previous soil for seven years and it was just getting good results. Now my wife and I just bought a new place and I have to start over. There is grass is the only area suitable for a good size garden. I was going to cut the sod out and add a 50/50 mix of sand and cow manure. Any thoughs?

4/13/2005 12:57:38 PM

Montoursville, PA

I have never cut out the grass. The grass and their roots are good humus. My new bed approach is to lace the are with three or four inches of peat or mushroom waste sometimes called mushroom compost. A very light application of new cow manure is fine if you are into the soil prep three to four weeks from planting.. Two or three year old manure of any kind can be added even up to four inches. Then turn your tiller loose and water in four ounces of black strap molasses two times in the first month. After that continue but with two ounces per gallon of water. A one thousand square foot patch will easily use up that amount of molasses as the bacteria go to work on all the complex manures you put in. 20 lbs or Ironite or Greensand would help any new patch like this....not both.
Azromite by Fretrell is perhaps an even better product than the first two I mentioned. You may not have it close at hand while the others usually are on the market. Get an educated guess on the PH and take local judgement to adjust.
Test early this fall to see what tweeking you need to do.
With decent water this should give you a decent first year late developed patch pumpkin.

Go ahead and plant. If the plants show yellow leaf I would suggest foliar feeding. The choice I would make would be Liquid Ironite.

As the plant expands mulch with leaves, old spoiled hay or straw. Hoe under any returning grass and shake some more compost on top of the weeds. Just do not cover your first foot or so of vine including the stump.

4/13/2005 5:01:26 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Start digging!... Dig a hole into the sod and see what's under there. You never know it could be sitting on two inches of top soil over clay or hard pan...check the drainage time by pouring water in the hole. make sure its draining properly. I wouldn't remove the sod but would just turn it in. Sand and manure won't hurt ya either.

4/13/2005 8:56:03 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

You could also be sitting on 36" of fine garden loam. Get digging is right!

I'm with Dwaine on the grass. Till it under & enjoy the additional organic material. It's a valuable addition & why throw it away before it's even paid for? ;o)

Best growing wishes in the new patch!

4/13/2005 10:10:35 PM

Brighton, MI

What does the black strap molasses do & where do you get? So, what i am gathering is not to remove the grass, do i just cover it up, till it in, kill it off or what? the problem i have had in the past is it coming back, how do deal with that?

4/14/2005 10:55:03 AM

Utah

you can kill it with a round up type product. then till it.

I started a new patch 2 1/2 years ago ... it was grass. I cut it up with a sod cutter and a co-worker took it all to his new yard.
yes keeping the grass keeps that OM in there and that is good.
either way it is a lot of work ...
Tilling through all that grass can be a big task unless you have hefty tiller.
and cutting and hauling sod is no picnic either.

4/14/2005 11:12:13 AM

Utah

... I added A LOT of manure after the sod was removed.

4/14/2005 11:13:17 AM

Syracuse, NY

i am sort of going to be doing the same thing for my
1600-pound SQUASH patch....it will be a large extension of
an area where i grew a 307-pounder last year. probably gonna be about 700-800 sq. feet when done.
it is lawn right now, and too close to the weekend to do the Roundup thing, as it generally likes three days or so to really get into the weed or grass. i suppose if i make sure to use the 'RainProof in Two Hours' stuff i should be okay if it has at least two days' head start.
the guy that does my tilling for me is coming-over Saturday morning to evaluate this and other projects, and i can maybe make this the last thing i get tilled....it is in the perfect spot. you'll see. eric

4/14/2005 5:15:32 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Molasses stimulates bacteria into reproducing like crazy by giving them surplus food. Ideally you would also introduce a species of bacteria that enjoy consuming the organic material at the same time so as to have the most impact possible. Many of the better "compost starters" are of the sort you're after.

4/14/2005 9:32:01 PM

White Plains, NY

Steve or whoever,

The product sold for septic systems (Septic Bacteria) is that viable for the mulch pile?

4/15/2005 8:38:33 AM

Hermitage, Pa

Good information on this thread. Just built a second patch last month. Getting soil test done now. Rick

4/15/2005 8:43:32 AM

Montoursville, PA

Capt........compost piles are mulch until they convert to humus. Anyway along the way molasses will feed your army of bacteria. You just can't hardly do any better lest you introduce a small fractional amount of fresh poop with the molasses. However if it is a pile in the making and still smells like poop.......it is! In this case add more leaves or other browns. There are all kinds of starters sold. None are two cents better than a "Black Strap Molasses" bath.

4/15/2005 3:46:54 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Jim,

I'm stuck in Stamford probably all of April. Thus I haven't been to see you guys. I'll mail you a package of the correct bacteria. Leave the septic treatment for the honey tank.

The stuff I'll send you has (among other good stuff) bascillus Subtilis in it to fight soil borne diseases like Fusarium & Rhizoctonia. You won't find that in a Septic Tank treatment which is engineered to decompose human waste in an anaerobic environment.

4/15/2005 7:46:58 PM

Oz

What is the avg market price of bac. subtilis

4/20/2005 10:19:22 PM

Santa Rosa, CA

Is the worm popluation a good indicator of a suitable planting site?

4/28/2005 6:08:18 PM

Brighton, MI

i've read a lot about adding gypsum. What does this do for the soil & how much should i add?

4/29/2005 12:28:02 PM