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San Diego, CA

Ok, all the info I've got on nitrogen in manures is pounds per thousand, not ppm. Any ideas how to translate? Also, if sheep manure is 8.3 lbs/thousand nitrogen, horse manure 5.8 & poultry manure is 16.3, & the sheep manure is cut with composted alfalfa (which I would assume raises calcium levels?), & the poultry manure mixed with equal parts barley straw & pine shavings (also decomposed), what would folks recommend adding to a new patch made up primarily of these ingredients? My soil is mostly clay, with little organic matter (was graded (badly) some years ago), so I've been doing deep bed lasangna style gardening for my regular vegetables, basically piling the compost where I plan to put a garden, then throwing up a fence around it to keep out rabbits.

12/17/2004 8:48:42 PM

Puyallup, WA

I started out with about 4-5" and plowed it in in the Fall.
I plowed again in the Spring, then rototilled. That first Spring, the soil won't be pretty since it takes two years to build up good soil.

12/17/2004 8:58:44 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Shahbazin,

Pounds per 1000 is the most accurate way to determine nutrients applied. PPM requires we know the bulk density or weight of a soil.

But the same applied to the specs you have discovered. To move from a "percent nutrient" or "PPM" to a Pounds Per 1000 requires we know the weight of the material (bulk density) as well as the volume applied. This is usually expressed in total yards or inches of depth.

Where did you find those figures? Maybe there is more data?

12/17/2004 9:16:02 PM

Wichita, KS

Shahbazin, which region of California are you in? It sound like you are describing my soil, too! It would be nice to know of somebody who is growing nearby... email privately if you prefer.

12/17/2004 11:36:10 PM

San Diego, CA

I got the figures from my favorite farming text - Productive Farming, Davis, 1922; it was one of my grandfather's textbooks, & is still quite useful for sustainable farming techniques. Bought fertilizer is $$$, while the organic stuff, I've lots of - I breed sheep & poultry, plus my family boards horses here. I'm in San Diego county - east county, in Jamul. Frost until the end of April, enough chilling in the winter that apples & plums do well here. Figs are too delicate. Summer brings the challenge of high daytime temps, & while I didn't worry too much about stunting table squash (any bigger, & most maximas don't fit in the oven well), I'm very interested in what other Californians feel are the best techniques for dealing with midday heat & preventing wilting - misters, or shade cloth? Other squash I've grown that were intercropped with corn for shade, still showed wilted leaves at midday in August, but perked up by the afternoon.

12/18/2004 12:30:27 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Chris Andersen is from CA & authored this article on misting. As I recall, Chris grew a fruit over 900 (977?) as a "newb" & had to have a crane lift it out of his yard.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=36

There was probably a standard "depth of lay" to the application of manure in 1922 that is not ptinted ib the text for some reason.

Here is a link to Manures you might find useful.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/components/7401_02.html

If your Sheep manure contains 10%N, then a ton contains 200 lbs of Nitrogen. N is lost by many means however. So broadcasting one ton per acre isn't anything at all like spreading an equal amount of soluble Nitrogen from a synthetic source like 46-0-0 Urea. (434 lbs per acre).

You can safely apply much more N from manure, though the recovery won't be as efficient.

12/18/2004 8:00:06 AM

San Diego, Ca.

Hi Shahbazin,
I'm live out in east county not far from you so I think I can help you out with how to deal with the summertime heat we get here. I've tried shade cloth and misters both and feel the misters are the way to go.
First go to www.dripworksusa.com and have them send you a catalogue (you can also view their catalogue on the internet).
I used one of their sprinklers they call the "Super Net PC".
The exact one I use is part# MSNBLUT which comes with 36" of tubing attached so you can mount the sprinkler on a post above your leaf canopy. They are low flow sprinklers so you don't have to worry about using too much water. Each sprinkler has an 8.5' wetting radius (17'Ø).
The key to making the sprinklers work for you is in the timer you will use. Dripworks also sells the timer you may want to use. I use the same timer they call "DIG greenhouse battery timer" part# TGALGH34 ($115) If you don't mind the drive I found the same timer at Grangettos (Grangettos.com)in Escondido for $85 Model# 510.075P (the one I use) I was very happy with how well it worked. It has an indefinite number of start cycles which you will need and is very versatile in the amount of time the water will cycle off and on.
In the summer I would cycle the sprinklers off and on from 9:30 to 5:00 during the day with the sprinklers on for 4 minutes every 15 minute period but on hotter days (mid 90's and up) I would have the sprinkler stay on longer or reduce the cycle time to 10 minutes instead of 15. Your pumpkin plant will dictate the amount of time the water will need to be on. Look for signs of wilting...heat stress.
Another thing to consider is growing a seed with known good heat tolerance such as the 950.4 Boyton although most plants should do well here with misting.
I hope this helps. Vince

12/18/2004 11:22:58 AM

San Diego, Ca.

"I'm live out..." I should have proof read. LOL oh well.

12/18/2004 11:28:16 AM