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Montoursville, PA

High quality CT is made only from high quality compost that is aerobic and kept in the aerobic condition until it is applied.

Few plants benefit from anaerobic teas.

Aerobic teas and compost are chuck full of bacteria and higher forms of living biological life. This is the condition or quality, of tea, your patch and leaves need, to fend off, disease and minor insect damage.

Aneorbic teas and compost are full of fungi and undesirable other elements that are scarey.

Aerobic tea of the highest quality must be made, on location, from high quality aerobic compost, and applied while the tea is in it's highest aerobic quality or value.

Go here to learn more about making and using good quality tea: http://www.norganics.com/about.html Growers in the Northeast interested, in healthy patch, additives will enjoy this site as a possible source, for a number, of good products.

1/24/2004 3:27:40 PM

Deer Park WA

Easy there Doc,

You are close to giving out one of our best kept secrets! Compost tea brewing is a HIGHLY refined art. We use vermicompost as our base ingredient along with black strap molasses, kelp and our personal favorite additive Comfrey. Brewed for 3 days with an aquarium air pump.

The Gadberry's

2/5/2004 1:17:36 AM

Covington, WA

Another useful link: http://www.soilsoup.com/home.asp
It's a commercial site but there's good information here. Seems some folks have figured out there's money to be made on this.

2/5/2004 1:37:32 AM

New Hampshire

http://www.norganics.com/tea.html

Here is another site

2/5/2004 7:56:34 AM

Montoursville, PA

Hey guys....I have used tea for years....but frankly now know that much of it was anaerobic and possibly even worked against the direction I was trying to go.

I do believe that any tea has some good qualities but since coming here and catching up on my education I realize that the only way to go is with high quality aerobic teas.

With the exception of my 1000 sq. ft. pumpkin patch and three or four dwarf fruit trees the rest of my property is totally organically managed. The consideration of improved compost tea in my plan will get me one step closer to eliminating most of the harsh chemicals. To many others have absolutely done this. I deduct from that that certainly I can too.

I listened to the wrong Pied Piper a bit to long last summer. I have some backing out to do.

I have purchased the North Country Organics Biti-Bobulator, one of the very best well tested and proven Compost Tea Makers....and the only one the whips and turns the compost in the making process. 18 - 20 hours makes a batch of five gallons. The pumpkins may need a quart or so a week. The rest will go on my other gardens and lawns.

2/5/2004 10:06:51 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Check this out.

http://www.soilfoodweb.com/sfi_html/index.html

Dr. Elaine Ingham gave birth to these theories & is a very well respected authority on these matters. Interesting.

Steve

2/5/2004 2:46:31 PM

Montoursville, PA

Dr. Elaine Ingham has picked up the principles and caused others to get involved in functional application. I have talked with her staff. Her consultion fees are fair but exceed the cost that I care to invest in a hobby pumpkin.

I used her compost tea book, 4th edition, to help evaluate the several tools that are out there for making tea. The maker of my Biti-Bobulator took the time to fully support my introduction to his fine machine and the art of making high quality aerobic tea. He has written two or three books on the growing number of organic or healthy soil commercial growers and businesses that are having present day success.
I have one associate who put $60,000 in the bank for his organically grown crop this year. Somehow I was impressed knowing that that fine New York grower also works with quite a number of other commercial healthy patch growers. His pumpkins are truly only his hobby.

2/5/2004 8:30:19 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Hey Gads,

What best kept secret?

Steve

2/6/2004 9:27:07 AM

Deer Park WA

The elixer of life for the soil food web "Compost Tea" brewed with worm castings and Comfrey.

2/6/2004 12:06:40 PM

Calif

Heres a question the Agro -K products have a similar style brewing compost but there process is anerobic. yet the compost tea oxgenated to keep anerobic micros from taking over. The two processes seem to contradict each other. Any thoughts? MB

2/6/2004 12:44:11 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Yikes! I Googled for "comfrey". Hope you're not drinking C-tea also....


And one last warning from: http://gardening.wsu.edu/library/vege011/vege011.htm

Besides alcohol, there apparently is another nasty among us that can cause serious liver damage in humans, not to mention rats. Comfrey, Symphytum officinale, is an herbaceous perennial plant commonly grown in gardens. Its leaves are sometimes eaten, but most often they are used in brewing a tea for which its devotees claim a long list of benefits. Apparently none of the claims are true; to the contrary, long term use of comfrey tea may cause severe scarring in the liver and may even cause cancer. Comfrey contains a number of pyrrolizidine alkaloids, which are the damaging agents. They are in fact the same compounds in tansy ragwort, an invasive pasture weed which has been implicated in more than a few deaths of farm animals. This one, too, destroys the liver.

2/6/2004 1:42:14 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I drink Ales while I grow pumpkins so my liver's probably already toast. Then I grab a Marlboro so cancer can't be far behind. So what's a little carcinogenic tea if we pop a biggy?

2/6/2004 2:39:35 PM

Montoursville, PA

Mbrock/Calif. To your aerobic and anaerobic question. Both sides of the coin are excellent. In oversimplified terms I thing one could say that one anaerobic is built to support the aerobic. The aerobic high quality we speak of is creating high levels of fat and sassy bacteria. This is the living active part of biological goings on in soil. This can not be created, bottled and saved. It must be done on site and applied within a very short time span.

We are instucted that aerobic compost tea can not be overappplied because it carries it's own food with it. Anaerobic teas applied improperly on plants can burn and hurt plants.

....Now maybe someone can take a better shot at this answer.

2/6/2004 6:30:42 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I recently got a news alert from U-Mass about the benefits of controlled use of anaerobics. I'll dig around for it later. It is complex.

2/6/2004 6:55:47 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Steve, thanks for the link to soil food web. I have just placed an order for the doctors newsletter and the manual

2/7/2004 6:47:40 AM

Deer Park WA

Here's a great link to recipies for organic teas www.//htv.com/NATURE/020721/ch4/index.html it talks about Comfrey and it's benifits as a compost tea ingredient. Steve I wouldnt drink the tea either, worm poop tasts like crap!

2/7/2004 1:25:28 PM

Deer Park WA

Oh poop, here's the correct link. http://www.htv10.com/NATURE/020721/ch4/index.html

2/7/2004 1:31:24 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Brewing Compost Tea
Tap your compost pile to make a potion that is both fertilizer and disease prevention

by Elaine R. Ingham

http://www.taunton.com/finegardening/pages/g00030.asp

2/7/2004 4:51:03 PM

In the shade - PDX, OR

Oh no now the secret IS out.

2/7/2004 5:16:28 PM

Montoursville, PA

Cripes the first humanoid errectus that peed two steps outside the cave door discovered a spot of greener healhier dan-de-lion. And we still have doubters and naysayers laying down words of fear and confusion about compost tea.

This leads me to wonder if all of us evolved from that first level of discovery. There is not however a one of them that would disagree with the fact that dan-de-lions had to be the bestus and firstus to evolve into a plant that no chemical in the world would ever catch and destroy all.

2/7/2004 7:38:41 PM

Deer Park WA

Dan-De-Lyons probably were the main ingredient in the first "tossed salad" Doc!

Lyons; Get it...first string green genetic bender....

2/7/2004 10:57:36 PM

Calif

Doc I have farmed organically for 20 years the first five were rough but now have achieved a balance and produces 9 tons of vegetables off 2 acres in a short frost season-- not including AGs ..... Compost is the backbone. But the part that is confusing me is anaerobic spots of compost in the soil in my patch stink ----i always have tried to avoid those kinds of conditions because they seem to produce more nasties than good. So i believed-- and experienced ? I believe that aerobic compost and soil conditions to be best. But what i don't understand is the AGRO-K products as it appears to be anaerobic brew? And it seems that the lititure behind compost tea is keeping it aerated so you avoid some of the anaerobic nasties. I was hoping someone out there could explain Agro-k products that have tried it. Is it a product that stimulates more aerobic microbes... MB

2/8/2004 3:14:44 PM

Cameron,ontario Team Lunatic

Doc, I found this product on the internet and was wondering if you could give me your opinion on it. Check it out at this site and let me know what you think.

http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.asp?page=10363&category=2,2070,33134&ccurrency=1&SID=

Thanks Phil

2/8/2004 4:09:54 PM

Montoursville, PA

MB...Yes your last sentence has it nailed down pretty good.
AGRO-K, in their advertising, clearly states "not to replace other fertilizers and minerals but to support and build your existing even better"....or something to that extent.

I have never experienced your stinky spots but I bet my bottom buck that AGRO-K guys have. Although you did not say I would guess the spots are of some size within your total.
One would have to sit and ponder the several reasons that this could happen assuming all was treated reasonably equal.

Could it be lack of oxygen caused by water being to heavy in those areas? Could it be large compost piles were introduced before the outside of those piles were turned in and heated in the pile to 140 degrees like the internal part of the pile should have been. This could cause good areas and anerobic areas that could stink. This could also be the results of free manures from others not being well handled in piles. There is always the possible fact that former users made their field turns with spreaders of chemicals and created hot spots within an area, in which case the area did not or could not leach it out well enough to recover equally with the total.

If you are seriously considering AGRO-K I am sure they would, with a whole lot, of experience, work with you, to pin point what to me is somewhat of a guessing game.

The only Rx I would have is often the only one needed. Somehow feed the bacteria. I would certainly try a good application of fish and molasses at the rate of two ounces of fish and four ounces of molasses applied to one of those areas and see what happens, per thousand square feet. Just for the sake of knowlege check PH in one of those bad spots.

Sounds to me like you have a pretty good handle on healthy patch maintenance. Congratulations!

2/8/2004 6:20:23 PM

Montoursville, PA

Phil.........everybody's got a better mouse trap. My rule of thumb is that every step removed from natural applied manures, compost and the elements of compost is a step in the wrong direction. Our convince and practice of always seeming to like short cuts appears to be a human trait we all share.

I find no real problem with your find in a bag. There is just no way that you can build humus, add significant real life back into your patch using only a product like this.
A small well managed compost pile and a few buckets of real manure will beat that dehydrated product many times over...every time no matter how cleverly they sweeten up the advertising. I have used products like you ask about and may in the future but not to replace the real thing.

Reading assignment. Go to North Country Organics and surf the site. There is a lot of solid basic stuff there. I know there are very good sites on the West Coastmy west coast organic suppliers but this is the one close to me. I pass up West Coast Suppliers due to shipping costs..mostly. Look at the Biti-Bobulator. In it's size class it is an excellent tested and proven tea making devise. This would be something two or three growers might undertake to better their lot.

2/8/2004 6:43:19 PM

Cameron,ontario Team Lunatic

Doc, I checked it out but they have no Canadian connection and shipping costs are way to high and I'm the only grower in my area. Great site though and I liked the recipes they have. Are you using a fungal tea, bacterial tea or a balanced tea. I'm sure with the recipes I could make my own tea and add disolved oxygen to the water with aquarium bubblers. I'm using well water so I will have no problems with chlorine. The Biti-Bobulator looks like a pretty simple unit, maybe I can make a homemade unit. Thanks for your help.

Phil

2/11/2004 8:59:30 PM

Montoursville, PA

Phil.........As is often the case there seems to be no specific pumpkin records to dig into while considering. I shall run my tea favoring the bacterial mix while keeping the fungi high too. This direction may change if I find specific grower's advise to follow.

2/11/2004 11:01:16 PM

Deer Park WA

Deciduous trees, berries, and shrubs prefer soil that is fungally dominated, and so a tea that is made for them should contain more fungus biomass than bacteria. Vegetable crops (annuals) prefer bacterially dominated soils and so their ideal tea should be brewed to be rich in bacteria not fungi. There are many distinct (secret) recipies and brewing methods to enhance both fungal and bacterially rich teas. Take a dip in the soil food web pond and see for your self the organic benifits. I made my "Tea Pot" from a 55 gallon plastic garbage can and an aquarium pump.

2/12/2004 1:08:46 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

What do you guys think of using a down-regulated air line from a compressor as an air source? Less than 10 psi rugulators are available I think.

2/12/2004 8:22:38 AM

Deer Park WA

That would work Steve, except while brewing one must have continious air flow to keep the tea aerobic and I don't know about you, but our air compressor is really noisy. Also to get good aireation you would need to use some type of stratifying device like pourous air stones used in aquariums. I put one air stone in the bag with the compost and two others in the bottom of the barrel.

2/12/2004 3:34:38 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

It's in the garage. Plus it's a nice cast iron pump thats belt driven so it doesn't make much noise. I rarely turn it off in the summer anyway. And it won't take much air to dive a few air stones.

2/12/2004 7:34:28 PM