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Caceres, Spain

I've found that more giant pumpkins, perhaps, end the season with splits than intacts. Do you believe that all this number of sad happenings are due to a excess of fertilizer? to a excess of nitrogen alone? to another different nutrient? or could be other reasons behind?
Carlos

1/14/2003 12:37:40 PM

Bemidji, MN

Don, I believe splits are due to adding to much ferts and/or water at one time. As far as picking one (NPK) to blame it on, that may be tough. All could be to blame in the scheme of things. But I do believe for the most part, splits are grower error. Steve

1/14/2003 1:01:05 PM

Caceres, Spain

I was told that water the plants every day or almost is better to avoid splits than water once a week, because if a hard rain came, plant could take too much at once.

1/15/2003 3:17:45 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Once again my lack of AG experience may show through. But I'll wager that other growing experiences can still be applied here.

Applied Nitrogen's fate is not normally in the fruit. N promotes the green leafy parts primarily, though timing has a lot to do with this.Calium, Potash, & Phosphorous are more likely to increase fruit yields in the back half of the growing season. Especially potash & calcium.

Tomatoes are prone to splits after prolonged or too heavy watering. The fruit expands internally more quickly than the exterior covering can grow. So the cover splits. This is often the case with many fruits that are largely water. Pumpkins, Watermellons & Tomatoes all meet this criteria.

Until now, I never desired to push individual pumpkin growth at the rates we need to compete. Yet my own field observations would indicate that Carlos is correct. Pumpkins that have begun to mature (cover losing elesticity late in season), are likely to split when watering &/or fertilizer treatments cause rapid fruit growth late. Genetics & environmental stresses probably play a factor too. Shade covers are used to prevent early maturation.

I've heard of utilizing calcium to maintain elasticity but haven't tried it yet. I've seen references to applying liquid calcium treated towels to the pumpkins skin in the grower chat archives, but again know little of the result because I have never tried it either. Perhaps I will this year.

continued

1/15/2003 6:47:33 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I've also heard of using glycerine & other skin treatments, but can't vouch for this & can't find anyone who will even discuss this or antitranspirant use. Either these treatments have not been tried, or those who have tried them aren't talking......hmmmm....

Growth regulators & hormones can also be utilized to retard maturation. This too would help IF timed right. I just got a response (after 3 weeks) from Dr. Dick Roninson at Cornell about using giberellins, auxins, etc. on cucurbita. I've not yet anylized the data since his references have thus far eluded me.

One of the growers interviewed in Don Langevins first book summed it up maybe the best of all. "Steady goes the pace." I would have to agree that steady growth at moderate rates is a lot better than eratic roller coaster growth. This could "confuse" the developing fruit into thinking it was done too soon in the season & then shifting gears back toward growth would create ideal split conditions.

I wish a few of the truely accomplished "Heavy Hitters" would ring in on these subjects. The entire competition pumpkin growing goal centers on forcing growth at rate that defies nature. Then we must use any legal tool at our disposal to keep the pumpkin shell elastic enough, long enough, to not split or explode. Then we allow nature to mature the fruit at the last minute. All while keeping disease causing fungal & viral pathogens at bay.

Boy, we're not asking for much are we? LOL

I can't help but wonder if the very silent minority doesn't already know, but would prefer to keep their hard learned lessons to themselves for competitive purposes. That or maybe they just don't use computers like some of us do.

Steve Jepsen

1/15/2003 6:48:12 AM

Garden State Pumpkins

Hey Steve, what you say all makes sense but I know I've read in the chats that early nitrogen applied to young fruit sets causes explosions! Althought thr pumpkin probably goes through some sort of metamorph stages that make it crave the other nutrients I believe treatment of nitrogen late in the season for leaf growth would cause the same effect either directly caused by the nitrogen or sussequently caused by the extra leaves....From what I can tell the big ones have three or four weeks of unbelievable growth then settle into a steady rate. Like boilys hopefully his thirty plus days are over and will settle into 30 days of twenty plus then another period into the ten pound days as the shell hardens.. As the volume of the pumpkin is huge by then ten pounds a day is barely noticeable OTT measurement wise. During the actual growing season here it tough to get the "big" guys to answer alot of questions cause they're pretty busy but I'll tell ya right now with Boily growing his now the chat room has been a great place for pumpkin info...Grow Em Big Boily!!! Chuck

1/15/2003 9:45:17 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Chuck,

I agree that it won't be easy to post in the growing season. But theres still snow on my patch right now.....
So I'm calling in favors & doing some networking as only an agchem sales guy can. Yesterday after getting an encouraging email from "DollDoc" Dwaine (Thanks Dwaine!), I made some more calls.

I sell this stuff & plan to use it in the patch this year:

http://www.nutri-cal.com/index.htm

So I called my buddy Lyle over at Nitri-Cal. His Iowa sales guy is hooked up with a giant pumpkin grower thats been playing with this material. He didn't have names. But the guy is diluting Nutrical 2 parts water to 1 part Calcium. This is used to drench blankets which are left on the pupkin every other day. Lyle also recommends spraying all leaves, vines, fruit, & root zone areas to the point of run-off at a rate of 3 oz per gallon.

continued

1/16/2003 6:30:21 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Lyle assures me that this calcium treatment will result in nice supple skins that should be able to keep up with desired growth rates.

Applied Nitrogen levels around here (Connecticut) can be around 2-4 lbs/N/M per year with some NY studies showing a slight decrease in yield at 4lbs. So I'm going to stay at 2 & 3 & guage the result of each. The whole patch will get 1.5#N/M pre-plant, with the balance applied gradually via solubles until about Labor Day. There should be little or need for more N after this date in my opinion. Sandy soils might be different. But these are my soils I'm referring to. This is based on Ct Field & Howden pumpkins, not AG's. I called on the UConn extension folks for help here. So we'll see.

P is allready rediculously high in CT & fairly available when PH is correct. But since AG's are heavy feeders, 3-4 lbs/P/M should still be a benefit. 2 lbs/P/M pre plant is the plan. More won't help & could hurt. You'll see later.

Potash. I'll apply pre-plant again. About 1.5lbs from K2S04. Even though my soil is not deficient, I'll still apply 4lbs/K/M by the end. Again, just because a lot is good, any more could spell disaster.

continued

1/16/2003 6:56:36 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Potash competes with calcium on the way into a pumpkin. With high potash comes the need for additional calcium. Upset the soil cations with an off-balance approach here and my theory is that pumpkin guts WILL FLY.

Anything that causes out of balance nutrient availability via upsetting soil cation sites with surplus other elements is a recipe for trouble. All growers should strive for plants that are in a continuous "performance mode".

Plants that are allowed to endure stresses of any kind will need to endure a "recovery mode", during which time, growth will slow.

However agressive a fertility program is, we can't turn our backs on the "science of nature". I will check my theories with at least 2 soil & tissue samplings during the season. Tissue samples will be compared to the soil results for a complete picture of what the result of my input really is. Expensive? Yes, but then I like to play hard an am fortunate to work in this field.

So I don't think fertilizer is the cause of splits any more than guns kill people. It's the improper use & timing of fertilizer that probably causes splits as folks get giddy in their race to the close.

Boy can I form an opinion or what? LOL But then fertilizer is what I do. Try to imagine having to explain a career like mine at the next dinner party you go to.

Hey, somebodies gotta do it.

Steve Jepsen

1/16/2003 6:58:38 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Oh yeah, aborts.

The results of my research here has don little to support an association with N. High temperatures seem to be the single biggest factor. But who knows how heavy some growers really go?

When you see me make a reference like "1#N/M" the normal english translation is "One pound of Nitrogen per 1000 square feet". This is an accepted industry abreviation that keeps me from completely destroying my key board when I go off on one of my rants.

Steve

1/16/2003 7:08:01 PM

Montoursville, PA

Whew... I may have to read that again. Hee Hee.

1/16/2003 10:03:44 PM

Deer Park WA

Lighten up Tremor..... I think the "Big Boys" are afraid to post here because of several reaasons, 1- all the people who would have their email address. 2- all the negitivity this time of year. and 3 all the bone heads with all their negitivity... Oh sorry I guess only one and two apply. I really doubt the "heavy hitters" are hording any secrets as I know several, and they just use good solid cultural practices, no VooDoo, or Monkey dust.....

1/16/2003 10:31:26 PM

Covington, WA

Steve what you posted is solid useful information. And what Gerry said is true. Chuck, how would you like to have Geneva Emmons emails to answer if she posted her address in a public forum like this? People would hit these heavy hitters up all the time for seeds and information that they could get for themselves if they were willing to do a little research. I'm just throwing her name out as an example. You could use Joel Holland or Dave Stelts or Al Eaton in that place as well. There's plenty of folks who do have her addy and she's always been gracious in sharing tips with growers, but it's much more effective to do it though club newsletters and meetings for growers. I think many of the "heavy hitters" face this dilemma once they have established a name for themselves in the pumpkin growing world. Joel makes his videos full of useful information, Al contributes information to the clubs he belongs to. I don't know what Dave Stelts does other than grow huge pumpkins, but that's not the point. The point is I'd only like to be in their shoes on the day my pumpkins hit the scale and know that I've grown the biggest there was in a given year. Not that I don't love talking big pumpkins, but oddly enough there is more to life and I like having time for some of it, and so do they. Just throwing out some things some folks may not have thought of regarding the participation of the big name growers in this forum.

1/17/2003 12:33:24 AM

Covington, WA

OK I meant Steve, Chuck, or whoever wanted to read that last post of mine. I'm just throwing that out in defense of the heavy hitters who choose not to post here. You can bet a lot of them read these posts though. There's a lot of good information here if you know what to look for. You can learn a lot from an agribusiness salesman. Or a sharp college kid, or maybe a truck driver. Everyone here has something they can share, even if it's just asking a question you haven't thought of yet.

1/17/2003 12:40:51 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I suppose a grower would shy away from the limelight a little once there's has become a case of celebrity.
Now don't ask how, but through correspondence that is related to this website, I have obtained most of the email adresses of the celebrity growers that Tiller named. I've only e-mailed even one of them. And that was in direct response to a private e-mail that I received that was a question to a specific chemical. One should respect their privacy and just because someone wants a group of growers opinions, is not cause for all recipients to "reply all".
But Gad's & Tiller are probably correct. Not everyone would be discreet.
I will maintain though, that here on a public forum, it would be cool to hear not so much from a theorist or a manufacurer/distributor but rather from an end-user who has applied these techniques. Regardless of outcome. I readily acknowlege that mine is not actual AG growing experience. Just other pumpkin varieties. Though AG's are really only unique from my real experinces because of their size, so agronomically, the fertility programs should be similar.
So much of this theory might prove useful if someone who has tried these "voodoo" practices would comment.
Either way, without the flow of information, this & other forums like would become useless. Especially if those who can contribute are discouraged from doing so.
IMHO anyway.
Steve

1/17/2003 8:10:44 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Balanced fertilizers for the particular stage of growth are usually sufficient. Not much need for expensive treatments when cheaper alternatives (eg: gypsum) are available. Most HH's simply follow the basics as outlined in Langevin's books.
Don't over-analyze, just keep it simple.
The reason you don't see many of the top growers posting is simple...why should they? It's just more aggravation than it's worth, this can be a mean and vicious board at times.

1/17/2003 9:07:46 AM