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Sacramento, Ca

Can anyone make suggestions on the soil report at the link below? My patch is 300 sgft. I am going to use 330 sgft to make the math easy. Based on the soil report I come up with the following: 16.6 lbs lime, .56 lbs nitrogen, .33 lbs phosphate, .66 lbs potash, .2 lbs sulphur. First, are these amounts close and second what is a good source for each amendment? Warning, file is large! Thanks everyone.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc81/digital686/soil_test.jpg

4/1/2009 7:18:18 PM

Vancouver Washington

A couple of things stand out. The PH is too low, and you are running short on time. Soil PH takes some time. I would instead of adding the recommended lime from the soil report. I would add Hydrated Lime or something that acts faster. You have to be very exact with the amount - because unlike Lime - it can take your PH up too high too fast and some other things, but it would be a better choice. I would do this NOW...Do some web surfing, ot maybe Tremor can chime in here with an appropriate application rate.

4/6/2009 12:27:22 PM

Vancouver Washington

I would also add at least 100 pounds of gypsum. Your Calcium numbers and your sulpher numbers are way too low.

I would also add a couple hundred pounds of Alfalfa meal and 4 or five yards of composted manure - and about twenty pounds of feather meal. All this stuff takes time and warm soil to get going. I would still use some mild water soluble nitrogen at the start of the season for plant feeding. Calcium nitrate would be a good choice for your soil. That sould get you started

4/6/2009 12:34:17 PM

President - GPC

Also, check out with growers and or your local extension. The local folks will have personalized information pertinent to you growing locale. I know we have had more than one grower suggest adding lime because they did not knowing that in our location thats the last thing we needed. Your local extension knows the commonalites of your soil and can make some pretty good recommendations based on that. Not saying that folks on this website dont know what they are doing....they do....but soil tests can be difficult to read...and the adjustments the same....We need to know what we have...and what we need...and slow and sure winZ the race. My Rodale books sayZ it takes 5 yearZ to properly change your "living" soil affectively.....

4/6/2009 2:59:54 PM

Colorado Springs, CO

Compost, good compost, dry molasses-alfalfa meal-kelp meal, natural rock minerals and NOT pelletal chemicals, consistent water content, hydrolized fish drench, worm castings, more compost, intermittent foliar applications of wormcastings tea, compost tea, kelp solution...and more compost.

If you ain't got earthworms...you ain't got soil.

Chuck the chemicals, forget about all the systemics stuff and the fancy pesticidal chemicals. Pull out any weed you see by-hand.

Use beneficial insects like (good) nematodes, and green lacewings, lady bugs and trichogramma wasps. Plant bee and (good) insect-attracting flowering plants around, and inside, your garden areas. Install a "home" at each end of garden for mason bees. Say hello to every bumble and honey bee you see throughout the entire growing season.

Oh yeah....more compost.

4/7/2009 12:01:52 AM

Vancouver Washington

Hey Wiz and Tomato Man Not trying to be argumentative or pedantic, but did you go to the web address he posted and look at the numbers? You both offered some excellent advice - and things I mostly agree with. However...There is zero chance that his soil is too alkaline - like the soils in Colorado. Also, I agree with both of your advice on trying to promote more organic and living soil and less chemicals etc - but if his hope is to grow a big pumpkin this year - some of the things you said are a bit misleading. For instance, The biggest pumpkins ever grown were grown in first year patches that had been adjusted and amended that year - and it didn't happen with just compost and bees.

4/7/2009 1:30:50 AM

Picton,ON (j.vincent@xplornet.ca)

Very interesting responces to this post. My aproach to this patch would be to get a bunch of well composted manure in there this spring. You also need the lime. The lime will add Calcium, while raiseing your pH. I would avoid the Hydrated lime recomended abouve , it is just to quic and too harsh on the soil microbes. Instead look for horticultural or grow lime at your local garden center. For 300 ft2, you need a 50 lb bag. I agree, get it on as soon as the soil is dry and you can work it in. The composted manure will give you some N, P and k as well as some trace ellements. I would not add any comercial fertilizers until you get the manure in and then re-test if you have time. I agree with the 4-5 yards of manure or compost if you cant find manure.

I agree that it does take a lot of time of ammend the patch. A second test may not tell you a whole lot more this soon. if you end up with compost instead of manure, I would add a 5-7 lbs of 7-7-7 to your 300ft2 patch

4/7/2009 7:14:24 AM

South East

bloodmeal, alfa alfa meal, fismeal, or calcium nitrate for nitrogen, calium nitrate would be best since you need calcium to. But use one of the others to for some microbial life in your soil. Lot of compost, to get your om up to atleast 5% ( wich isnt to hard on 300 sqf). Then bonemeal or rock phosphate for your phosphorus. Sulfur of potash for your pottasium wich is 0-0-50 so dont go crazy on that. Lots of gypsum for sulfur and calcium. Maybe 150/200 lbs
As for lime you wonna use a combination of fast acting and dolomitic lime. It wil take some time, but your plant isnt in yet and befor its decent size the ph wil be adjusted atleast a bit.
Most import is your om, and ph. Make sure you add some meals for microbial life. Kelpmeal, bloodmeal, bonemeal etc.
Your numbers are low but balance isnt to bad. good luck

4/7/2009 7:23:06 AM

President - GPC

My statement was based on trying to radically change the Ph of soil overnight. Take a fish tank for instance....change the Ph to rapidly......then you have floaters on top......You can watch the fish instantly shimmy, & shake, they gasp for oxygen..loose equilibrium, turn...and float....those that do make it start to go thru a slow dying period due to the shock....pick up diseases and soon are gone....Yes he does need to add ammendments to raise his Ph. No argument there at all. "DO IT NOW"? Yes..but do it in increments...SLOWLY.... Not in a panic because the season starts in two weeks" ...Slow and sure winZ the race.... I prefer to use organic means to try and do this......as really itZ the biology in the soil that is breaking down the chemicals and changing the Ph....Balance in the soil...Yes I see the fantastic results in virgin soil...I asked some questions....last Niagara of Dr Linderman.....and a few heavy hitters.....What waZ said was it waZnt what waZ in the soil...but what waZ not in the soil.....beneficial vs pathogens.....biology....the proper biology.....that just got me thinking a lot..adding what I have learned and still what I need to learn......How do we master this...? SLow and sure winZ the race......Food for thought.......All good answerZ here....and all good effort....GrowZem BIG

4/7/2009 9:10:39 AM

Colorado Springs, CO

One might want to seek the book..."Teaming With Microbes, A Gardeners Guide to the Soil Food Web". Authors are J. Lowenfels and W. Lewis. It's one book among many, yet a good one.

I would rarely, if ever, hang my hat on the results of ONE lab-analyzed soil test (and maybe, Midnight HAS had several done)....and then start acting on a prescription for applying 100's of #'s of this and that. Once dumped upon and mixed in....there is no easy removal of any amount of "too much" that could have been applied.

The one prevailing message that is acknowledged clearly in everyone's help to the original poster is that it takes...reasonable time...to properly and effectively alter that balance toward perfection for a garden's soil. A rapid effort to crank-it-all-up is no different than a steroids approach to getting it done when there are a mere few weeks till planting time.

Compost, earthworms and microbial life in the soil will do more, do it better, and do it....easier....within the larger approach to creating a viable growing medium. Microbes WILL bring pH closer to that 6.5 to 7.5 range that we all desire. Don't stress the microbes or the worms. If you piss them off, and they die, then everybody loses.

Good microbes, thriving and re-populating in your soil, can almost always win the battle over the bad microbes and their bad pathogen cousins, and many bad-insect eggs and larva who lurk there too.

4/7/2009 10:52:04 AM

Vancouver Washington

Good points made by all. I appreciate the back and forth debates and information sharing. A couple more thoughts.

Gypsum is a pretty harmless ammendment. I wouldn't be at all afraid of adding 100 pounds of it for 300 square feet. I added 300 pounds to my soil (2000 sq feet). It was the powdered type. I sifted it right on top of my cover crop about 4 weeks ago. It washed into the soil with the rains. I have thousands of worms as of yesterday. It had zero negative effects on the cover crop or on the worms.

The Hydrated Lime is risky, but I believe managable in small doses combined with other Calciums. I am in complete agreement about the long term goal of heathly organic soil and planet friendly solutions, but i am not afraid of taking some moderate risks to try to push things along for the current season. We are all in agreement with the main thing....Get some organic matter in the soil. Well composted manure.

On a side note: I'm not sure slow and steady does win the race Wiz...It certainly is the way to go with aqauriums and sensitive soil microbes etc. You strike me as a No-holds-barred sort of guy. I'm kind of surprised that this is your philosophy...lol... I'm personally going to push my plants harder this year than I ever have. I am using pretty much all organic ferts, but at much higher rates this year. I guess we will see how that works out for me.
I'll either be a hero or an idiot. I'm not much for middle-ground. The learning curve is too flat in the middle for my tastes.

4/7/2009 11:54:40 AM

President - GPC

Vancouver......lol...Even though slow and sure winZ the race....perhapZ thiZ year I need to kick it up a notch...I and push the BiZZel....I mean bubble....I too welcome all theZe great comments....Im looking for you to be the hero this year...and Grow'Zem Big....And maybe Ill juZt chip away at the IceMan me self....

4/8/2009 8:53:23 AM

Sacramento, Ca

Thanks for all the good advice everyone! I guess it is probably too late this year to whip my dirt into shape since the growing season starts in a couple of weeks. Right now I still have onions and beets growing in my patch. Last weekend I pulled a large area of onions where the plant will start and turned in the onion tops and a wheelbarrow of compost. That's a start. I am going to pull everything on April 19th and till in all the stuff I need from the soil report. I'll be happy if I get a kin over 200 lbs!

4/9/2009 8:14:21 AM