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NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

I went to a site http://www.txplant-soillab.com/page29.htm and this article was speaking about sugars, mostly black strap molasses part of the article was: "Cloudy days and low sunlight intensity - reduces natural sugar production causing less fruit set or sloughing young fruit, longer space between nodes and fewer fruiting buds." Does this mean that molasses should be added especially in cloudy weather especially before pollination?

11/5/2005 2:26:22 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

brix.....

11/5/2005 3:22:14 PM

Ontario, Canada.

I came across this article a few weeks ago two. It sure opened my eyes about the correct use of molasses and sugary things. However they never mentioned what the correct rate of application should be. Craig's Agro-k program calls for intervals beginning at every, 8th day decreasing to every 5th day in late september at a rate of 1oz to the gallon.

It seams to suggest that it may also be beneficial to spray on cloudy days to supplement poor natural production. It makes a lot of sense to me. I just wish that more information could be found to help us come to a clearer understanding.

Doc, and I discussed this a while back in previous post about a month ago.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/msgboard/ViewThread.asp?b=10&p=136335

11/5/2005 4:31:35 PM

NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

No, they did not mention a correct rate of application. I don't even remember reading an estimate rate. Is it possible that there was no mention of a rate of application or frequency because of the variables listed may change the rate or frequency? But then no garden is a perfect environment and there is always a variable, probably more than one. Thanks for the info on Agro-k. I have always used one oz per gallon of water. I just read your discussion with Doc. Thanks for that info. Very interesting reading. Why more beneficial on a cloudy day? And if that is so, would it also benefit the compost pile on a cloudy day also? Perhaps even waiting a day for the compost pile since it is not as strict of a schedule as the AG pumpkins?

11/5/2005 4:55:19 PM

Follansbee, Wv

What you are discussing is the product of photosynthesys. In other words, when plants produce food from sunlight, it is in the form of sugars. On cloudy days, less food is produced. Supplementing that shortage with a foliar spray might be benificial. Contrary to popular belief, food does not enter the plant leaves via the stomata, but rather through micro fissures in the leaf cells surrounding the stomata, around the guard cells. If this foliar food is of the correct chemical composition it is acceptable to the plant and is used immediatly.
This is not the same thing as applying molasses to a compost pile. In composting operations molasses is used to boost microbe populations, thereby speeding up the compost process.

11/5/2005 5:30:41 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Monty has been staying current!

11/5/2005 6:28:58 PM

NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

Monty, I did not mean to imply that it was the same thing as a compost pile. My apologies if it came across that way. I was wondering if this sunny/cloudy day would benefit the compost pile. Thanks for the explanation. Very fascinating. But docgipe and kahuna had a very fascinating conversation as well. But that site that we visited stated some intersting facts but seemed to leave more questions than answers. You just explained some of them, thanks. Does the plant also receive nourishment through the roots also? According to what I have been reading, it seems that with molasses, the roots gain more through a soaking than the leaves gain from a foliar feed?

11/5/2005 8:27:19 PM

Follansbee, Wv

I read the article you mentioned. At the end of the article it states that it was an "over simplification of a very complicated biological process". In other words, it was merely a summary of observed facts. You would have to find a more “in-depth” discussion to gain any useful knowledge.

“Does the plant also receive nourishment through the roots?”

The thing to understand here is that the plant is composed of many parts. Each is dependent on the other for the plant as a whole to survive. “Does the plant also receive nourishment through the roots?” Yes and no. The primary function of the roots is to provide the bulk of the water and minerals needed to allow the plant to manufacture its primary food i.e. carbohydrate. The majority of the “food” the plant requires is derived from the leaves via photosynthesis.

Now, for photosynthesis to occur, there must be chlorophyll present in the leaves. A major component of chlorophyll is magnesium. Does the plant make Mg? No. The roots provide it as a micronutrient…a “building block” basically. Remove the Mg from the soil and the plant will starve to death eventually because it cannot manufacture chlorophyll. There are something like 13 basic minerals that plants need to survive. Those are the ones we look at in our soil tests. (cont.)

11/6/2005 11:00:36 AM

Follansbee, Wv

(cont)
OK, what is molasses? In the simplest explanation most relevant to this discussion it is simply a product of photosynthesis. Yes, I know, it’s what is created by boiling the extracts of the sugar cane plant…blah, blah, blah. That is not the point. The point is it was manufactured by a plant as food for that plant. Why does it work when applied to a plant? Because it is already in a form the plant can use, because it was created by a plant. Since the roots can absorb it from the soil, molasses acts as an instant food supply for the roots. So instead of having to depend on the ebb and flow of sugars in the plant, the roots have a ready supply available.

Why could this be important? Well, I have read somewhere that sugars in the plant are distributed in a certain order. The three sinks are growth tips, fruit, and root. If I remember correctly, that is the order in which “food” is distributed. If the growth tips and fruit use the majority of the supply, little is left for the roots. Could this lead, in part, to the suberization of roots? I don’t know.

The main question here seems to be “How much?”. I don’t think you will find a definitive answer to this question. I would suggest this: If a plant is functioning at optimum efficiency, with well-balanced soil and adequate moisture, I would say very little molasses is needed. However, if there have been several cloudy days, the plant is not operating at peak efficiency and hence a larger dose might prove to be beneficial to make up for the lower photosynthesis production. (cont.)

11/6/2005 11:01:35 AM

Follansbee, Wv

(cont.)
Something else just occurred to me. Many people prune every other secondary from their plants. What effect does this have on the manufacturing capability of the plant as a whole? Does this pruning cause a possible deficiency in sugar levels in the plant? Would a pruned plant benefit more from molasses applications (either root drench or foliar) than an un-pruned plant? If growth tips are considered sinks, then does reducing the number of growth tips balance out loosing the leaves of the pruned secondaries? If so, then we are back to plant efficiency.

11/6/2005 11:01:50 AM

NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

The growth tips receive he sugar first them the fruit then the root. So if we terminate the growth tips them more sugar will be available for the fruit and the roots. But if we terminate the growth roots then we are preventing the plant from feeding. Is this a Catch-22 situation or is it just precise balance? Seems like there is a good possibility of sugar deficiency to the plant.

11/6/2005 5:32:41 PM

NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

A lack of mg will cause slow vine growth, is that correct? Then will an over-abundance of mg also be detrimental to the plant? Could a plant over-photosynthesis?

11/6/2005 5:34:38 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

As far as I understand, the plant will only use as much Mg as it needs, so it won't over-photosynthesize. But in general it seems that by having too much of any particular soil element you end up with a soil imbalance, which could interfere with the root's ability to uptake some of the other important elements.

11/6/2005 9:47:24 PM

Follansbee, Wv

Mg has several functions in a plant. The production of chlorophyll is only one of them. No, a plant cannot "over-photosynthesis". An excess of Mg would probably lead to a potassium deficiency.

11/8/2005 2:35:27 PM

NEPA roller46@hotmail.com KB3QKV

Does an AG need more mg and thus more photosynthesis than say a "Casper" or even a "harvest moon" pumpkin because of the size of the leaves and the size of the plant itself?

11/8/2005 10:20:22 PM