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Muddy Waters

What is wrong with selling seeds from a something you grow,lets say a WR kin,After auctions are over a grower sells a couple dozen seeds to get some of the hundreds of dollars back that he or her has spent.Is this considered wrong???Im going to spend 1500$ on amendments & drip tape.What will I do with all these WRs Im growing this year LOL

1/20/2011 7:05:56 AM

Niagara Falls,NY

There is probably nothing wrong with selling seeds(even though I feel some just ask too much$).I got into growing giant pumpkins back in 1999 because it was someyhing I could do with very little money,it was fun,and I met some great people.It's like any thing else,some people spend a few bucks and grow a big pumpkin,others spend alot of money to try to grow even a bigger one.It's the growers choice how much money he spends.But I think that if some one grows a big pumpkin,why not put some a side to give away so that the small guy can get a chance to grow a big one.I'm hoping that this hobby does not turn into -the one with the most money wins.I feel big pumpkins can be grown with just good farming techniques,good soil,pest control etc.But if you want to spend big money to push the envelope go right ahead,but you sould know from the start that that money is gone.Just my feeling,hard to put you thoughts into words sometimes.I really love doing this and will never stop,to much fun.

1/20/2011 8:21:41 AM

Nova Scotia

If I ever developed a hot seed (which I never likely will) I would give them to growers but charge 5-10 dallors shipping and handling fee. ?

1/20/2011 8:31:28 AM

Muddy Waters

Im not talking greedy,Just recoupe a little money 5-10 sounds fair to me!!I would still give some away!!

1/20/2011 8:58:36 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Where does the prize money come from for the weigh offs, and the cost of running these organizations. Seed Auction Profits.. If the growers sell seeds by themselves, they take away from the Growing Organizations. Then the Growing Organizations will have to charge more to participate. Then the amount of pumpkins weighed will decrease, and the hobby will fizzle.

1/20/2011 10:35:11 AM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

So Linus... what about all the seeds on the Dill's site? Growers sell seeds to the Dill's and then they re-sell them....is that gonna make the hobby fizzle? Seems to me that the growers can re-coup some money to re-invest in the patch to keep growing....isnt that the case?

1/20/2011 10:41:50 AM

Western NY

Selling seed for personal gain has always been somewhat frowned upon since I started growing.

1/20/2011 10:42:55 AM

Bristol R.I. USA

The fact is that the hobby is growing and people have a desire to plant a certain growers seeds because they have the potential to grow a larger offspring. I've always thought it was great to see growers be cool about giving out their seeds to growers and organizations. when seeds are donated for an auction its for the betterment of a certain club or cause. A particular seed may go for big bucks at auction and then you might catch that same grower in a good mood that will give you that seed for the price of a bubble and a show of appreciation. A show of appreciation meaning a letter introducing yourself and your plans and promise to plant the seed.

Sometimes people tend to get bubble crazy...(I've been guilty of that) There are plenty of growers that have ignored common courtesy and just send a bubble expecting to get a seed. That's just bad manners and rude. I've seen most growers willing to give you any seed you ask. And I've never been upset if a grower is unable to give a seed.

As long as you promise to plant it or a promise to donate a certain amount to charity.

I recieved my first Atlantic Giant Pumpkin seed from a Heavy Hitter that wanted to see me grow a good size pumpkin. He asked nothing in return. Some growers spend a ton of money on growing. This includes the soil test to all the amendments. Lets not talk about the time and energy and effort to see how far a seed can be pushed. The fact remains that if you grew the pumpkin the seeds belong to you and your free to do what you want to do with them. Current practices are to donate to organizations so they can have money for prize money and to hold the weigh offs. Sometimes I don't think people understand how much time and planning a weighoff takes. Not to mention the money from renting all the equipment as well as traffic control and advertising. The seeds are a source of income for an organization.

1/20/2011 10:45:39 AM

Bristol R.I. USA

All in all. If a grower has seeds that everyone wants then it's his seeds and they do what they want with their seeds. I myself don't have that problem as I'm still a rookie to the hobby.lol..

1/20/2011 10:49:54 AM

Muddy Waters

Then shouldnt the prize winner donate money back to club for the common good.Im being sarcastic of course.

1/20/2011 10:50:58 AM

Muddy Waters

Actually giving the seeds away is hurting the clubs. I know guys who wont buy a seed at auction,they claim they can get them for free.Why Buy???

1/20/2011 10:53:35 AM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

If you step back and leave out the "moral" component (which is valid) and just think about the best method of distribution, I really like what I call the "Ebay model." Again, I think about this because I like to think about economics, leaving out the "freely received, freely given" aspect.

What do we do when we SASPB? We send an outer envelope (WASTE) and postage (WASTE) to someone and they send it back. That's OK... but particularly that postage, sending it twice is adding to everyone's cost.

If we all went and put our seeds on Ebay... what you do is set your starting price at the amount the bubble pack, the postage and other supplies cost, plus a little (very little) for your time and effort. Seeds would start out at $2 to $3, and those seeds that people consider desirable will rise in value. The market sets the price! But in order for this to work, lots of growers would need to get involved.

But a healthy economic system does more than set the price. It is EFFICIENT, in that those who want the seeds can get them. Anyone who goes to the trouble to purchase a seed is likely going to plant it and not put it in a box for collection.

Then again, the club auction system is there and should serve that purpose. It's just crazy though, the prices. It's insane. Even if I didn't have a wife and five kids to feed, and even if I made a million dollars a year, you would never see me paying even three digits ($$$) on a seed that might never germinate.

The club auction system works because of "scarcity" (fewer seeds will command bigger bids) and there is also some false belief out there that if you buy a certain seed, that seed is going to make you a champion grower. But that's what we have. I think a lot of it is simply treated as a "donation" to a club. Donations are fine, but since I don't have a club where I can win prize money...

Not trying to step on any toes here, I probably do myself a dis-service

1/20/2011 1:03:02 PM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

It cut me off... I probably do myself a dis-service by speaking my mind, lol.....

1/20/2011 1:05:09 PM

Niagara Falls,NY

I think people will still buy seeds knowing that it's helping clubs with weigh offs and things.I mean water is free and people still buy water! Giving seeds a way sometimes is good because it get a seed planted alot and a grower can see if it's the next hot seed.Plus new people some times like to try a hobby out to see if they want to do it or not,so getting started at a low cost (free seeds) is a way to go.Also thats how relationships with top growers are formed and is a good source of info.I can't thank enough all the growers who sent me seeds and answered numerous questions I had.This hobby is here to stay,to many dedicated and incredibly nice people that are doing it to let it just fizzle out!

1/20/2011 1:17:40 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Sell orange pumpkins not the seeds.

1/20/2011 1:51:25 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Its slowly evolving. This year was one of the 1st that some growers refused bubbles. A lot has changed in 10 years.

1/20/2011 1:51:57 PM

Nova Scotia

Good post and polite so far, nice to see

1/20/2011 3:28:44 PM

Michigan,up North

I started out growen big max i got from the store .Then bought ebay seeds then grew a 150lber and got hook.Its cool to watch the vines grow as fast as the do and the pumpkins are cooler to see grow 4 inches a night,I just grow for fun ,not looking to get a WR ,a 500 lber whould be sweet ,I see your point .If i dint get some free seeds off grower on the site ,I would off bought them from howard dills site.I dont make alot of money butt do good on tax returns .when tax day comes iam going to join the Premium Membership and donate 50 to the site cause i injoy the site and lookin threw the     Grower Diaries.

1/20/2011 3:29:58 PM

Frankfort Ohio

i like to see the auctions they are the back bone of this hobby and i try to support my clubs but i never would be able to grow the great seeds that i have next year if it wasnt for generous growers who have helped me out i feel if alot of the heavy hitters start selling seeds that you will see some hot seeds come from people you never heard of because people will look for the same cross and give that a try we all know its not only the seed but the name

1/20/2011 4:30:54 PM

South East

money will ruin everything. Its not for nothing they call it the root of all evil.
Lots of post about more money at weighoffs, selling seeds. What happend to spending money on something you love to do, just for fun and bragging rights and expecting nothing else back in return other then the satisfaction that you did it?

A hobby: An activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation.

(if your trying to make money, its not a hobby)

Share seeds and feel privileged if someone wants to plant the seed of you labor. Keep this hobby fun, and upstanding and make money at your job.

Just our two cents
Tina & Frank

1/20/2011 9:03:40 PM

Muddy Waters

Fishing contest have prize money,as do car shows, as do lots of hobbies.Prize Money is nothing new in lots of Hobbys.People make money on hobbys its not a crime.It seems to be a two sided thing here.If I ever grow a biggie I will give to clubs,& to all the people who gave to me & a few newbies to payback when I was a newbie.I will also sell a few dozen to re-coupe some of the thousands I have spent on this Hobby.I have sold 5 kins for 1500$to a local store and had a guy buy 2 kins & a melon for 1100$,two years in a row.It made it all more enjoyable to grow,compete,have a blast and say hey a couple bucks came back.Ive paid 300$ water bills.30,000 gallons.Its not morally wrong!!

1/20/2011 10:03:55 PM

Niagara Falls,NY

Thank you Tina and Frank! Let's keep it fun.(and your thoughts only cost two cents!)

1/20/2011 10:36:42 PM

Lloydminster/AB

You know what I think..... I think that the reason that we have been able to increase weights yearly is because we can easily obtain seeds and make crosses for for the betterment of the gene pool. If you had to buy seeds it might change the reasons one might plant the seeds for. I think that it would begin to change the selection process because the selection of best seeds would no longer be the first priority. Cost and future profit may be the new reason for planting a seed and that may take away from our grow for size first priority. our gene pool could be quickly decreased in size. That wouldn't be good if priority was bigger fruit. I truly believe it would kill a fun hobby and it just shouldn't be done by the average grower. I can't believe anyone suggested it .... If that happens I'm done. No one should put a seed in the ground unless they can afford the cost of growing the darn thing first!

1/21/2011 1:12:51 AM

Dummer Twp - Ontario

As with any sport/hobby there will always be people who go to the extreme to excel and be at the top of the list, what they do and how much they have to spend is for the most part much greater than the "average" person doing the same hobby, these people also invest a huge amount of time. If someone wants to get some money back on there own seeds outside or raising money for clubs then trends might be changing towards that as many other trends are changing as well. If you think people don't already sell seeds to growers then you don't have all the facts, does it happen often - no but it does happen. Money does/can ruin good hobbies and drive people away from them but we are all the ruler of what we do and if we don't believe buying seeds is right then just don't do it, its that simple. Just as if someone puts up the most stupid post in the world, they tend to get 50 people jumping down their throat - rightly so but if we just ignored that person and post - it would go away and so would they probably. This is a little sidetracked but this sport/hobby is changing rapidly and will continue to do so, We can all find good seeds to plant and the high priced seeds will continue to be used for fundraisers etc, I have about 5000 seeds in my basement so I'm good for a few years - LOL

Kirk

1/21/2011 5:08:44 AM

Massachusetts

I look at this as a sport or a hobby, if you are good at what you do then "go pro". start a business and sell your seeds, some people like beachy, holland,langevin,ect are doing just that. someone is even selling them on ebay now...
http://cgi.ebay.com/5-WORLD-CLASS-giant-pumpkins-seeds-/200566454065?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb2b13731
but just remember why you started growing,and if someone gave you the seeds you started with. it's about the fun with me, and meeting some of the best people out there. there are hobbies that pay you back when you are good, or lucky, like fishing tournaments ect... but most hobbies do not pay back. so i look at this as something i love to do, and to put a smile on the faces of the kids that sit on the the pumpkins for pics. so it is really up to you, scott

1/21/2011 6:27:05 AM

Muddy Waters

Yeah this is a stupid post! Sorry it will go away in a few weeks.Let it die HHG.

1/21/2011 8:03:35 AM

West Sacramento Ca.

who dos'nt love getting bubbles in the mail?I feel you can sell seeds if you want too but the prices you have to pay for provin seeds at these sites and auctions is really getting high.There are many awesome growers who still send their seeds to us for the price of a bubble.If i ever grow a special pumpkin i hope to have enough seeds to send them to anyone who ask's.although it sure is a lot of work for the best growers.thanks to you guys who have sent me seeds!scott henkin

1/21/2011 8:08:23 AM

Massachusetts

hhg. this hobby is very costly, i dont think the post is stupid, i also would love to recoupe the cost of growing these giants, but for now i will continue supporting all the clubs that i can at the auctions, and giving most of the seeds that i buy away to a new grower, so that they have a better chance at growing something special, and helping the hobby continue into the future.....well back to shoveling this rotten snow!!!again!!!!

1/21/2011 8:35:41 AM

Niagara Falls,NY

HHG, It's not a stupid post.You started it out and people are expressing their thoughts.I think it helped people reflect on why they got into this hobby and why it's so much fun.I hope it's around for a long time and contiues to be a hobby that any one can do and have fun doing it.I hope it just doesn't get commercialize,the next thing you know you'll see seeds with a Nike logo on them!

1/21/2011 8:47:38 AM

Wi

I love this post. I agree with LiLpatch and Marley. No one ever faulted Michael Jordan for making money at what he loved to do. I think the money will escalate things to the next level. (However unlikely) I would love to support my family doing something I love. It would be great to recoup some of my expenses. As far as the clubs are concerned. I think we are not that far away from John Deere or Miracle Grow putting up the big money for the 1st 2000lb or 3000lb. Well I guess we will have to see what the future brings. I for one will be watching 2/5/11 when the next 1810 Stevens seed is up for sale as an indictor.

1/21/2011 2:49:40 PM

Wi

But for now I will keep growing pumpkins for the same reason my 6 year old shoots lay-ups. For the love of it. If we only knew what the future had in store?????

1/21/2011 2:58:38 PM

northern indiana

I am personally of the opinion that when you add a monetary component to the hobby you bring in the possibility of fraud. We have all seen threads and posts about bogus seeds often discovered in a trade gone bad. Buyer beware! Know who it is you are doing business with. There are a few who sell seeds every year and are trustworthy. Their reputations are clean. I think that many upstarts who do not already have a solid reputation in the pumpkin world will have to pay their dues to gain and maintain a good reputation if they intend to stay in the business of selling seeds. Those who would sell occasionally or for some extra cash should expect people to be suspicious. Be prepared to document as well as possible your product. I would really rather that people either treat selling seeds as a business or give them away as part of the hobby. It will not take very many bad apples to ruin it for the many. Undocumented seeds, poor storage techniques, poor pedigree info, poor chain of possession records, ect. can easily cause confusion and issues. Newcomers might find themselves soured on the hobby before they even really get started. Please if you sell for a hobby, sell only what you grew, document it well, (this includes who you sold to and when) and store properly.
Eric

1/21/2011 3:25:02 PM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

some growers sell seeds, some growers have been selling seeds for years, BUT with the " It's wrong to sell seeds"
for personal gain is better for the community and the gene pool as a whole.
As soon as one starts, the flood gates will open, just like the number of Auctions we're seeing today.
Then this opens up for fake seeds. and pumpkins with 900 plus seeds in them just to make a few extra dollars.
The system does change fast and we'll have to see what the future brings.

1/21/2011 3:26:53 PM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

Lol Eric, posted much the same

1/21/2011 3:27:40 PM

Eastern Washington State

Great post hapdad, for those reasons it seems that the system will be self-regulating, with the bias against individuals selling seeds holding up over the long haul.

1/21/2011 5:31:21 PM

northern indiana

ohh same post same time JINX!!

1/21/2011 6:56:54 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Curious here, If Mr. Stevens, 1810 new world record pkn, woulda had 175-275 seeds in it, would the price at auction be the same? I think not, but also think that a lot o 1810's would have been distributed to clubs, for their auctions!!!! Know what I mean? Peace, Wayne
and brought big bucks into each aution he sent one to!!!

1/22/2011 3:23:02 AM

Deer Park WA

I think its inevitable that private seed selling will come out of the closet. At least then Joe everyone will have an equal shot at the top genetics with out "bidding" for them... Auctions will still have their place and clubs will find ways to get prize money. I like the idea of pushing the prize mony onto weigh off entry fees.

Just my 2 cents

Gerry

1/22/2011 3:53:25 PM

Muddy Waters

The fee could not be much or only the big boys would up.

1/22/2011 4:53:42 PM

Niagara Falls,NY

Money is going to take the fun out of this hobby

1/23/2011 12:56:19 AM

Muddy Waters

Money is not the root of all evil, nor is it a sin.The LOVE of Money is the Root of all(most) Evil.I think money is getting a bad rap here.I bought my kids a new computer with the 800$ I won & sold my 848 in 2002.If not for the prize money & selling Kins to Markets& such this Sport would most likely be looking at a smaller WR right now.I have had tons of people look at me & say What do you do with a 800 lb pumpkin when your done growing.When I tell them I sell them for 300 to 500$ and can win a couple bucks & some seeds sell for 500$ a pc.They stop looking at me like Im smoking Crack cocaine.lol

1/23/2011 8:39:37 AM

The bottom of New Jersey

Money can only take the fun out of growing if you allow it to. I personally don't mind if people want to sell their own seeds, or pay tons of money for a seed at auction. In fact, I think it's great if that is what you want to do. I will always grow AGs for fun and the money part of it is just a side-note to me.

Take professional sports, for example. Some of the guys on the field are making tens of millions of dollars. We can still have fun watching them, we can still have fun in the backyard throwing the ball around for free. Sure, it feels good to grumble sometimes about how much money they are making, but ultimately when it is game-time we still enjoy it just as much. Truly loving something trumps money every time, at least for me.

1/23/2011 10:00:41 AM

Muddy Waters

Amen brother

1/23/2011 1:11:12 PM

Midwest

i couldn't agree more than what the Cooks (Tina and Frank) said. I wish everyone would read that again and think about it.

1/23/2011 3:50:23 PM

Howard Dill sold seeds.

1/25/2011 9:20:08 AM

Giant pumpkins require a lot of hard work. That is why the sport attracts such good people. Buying an unpredictable seed from a long line of hybrids doesn't ensure victory by any means. One still has to grow it.

1/25/2011 9:43:27 AM

Nova Scotia

Money is already involved in this sport Look at the books, and growing products being sold by other growers. They may not be getting rich but they are diffently getting compensated for there time and efforts. Even this great website has several people marketing on here that helps out the creators of this website. Also look at the AGGC site. You have to pay to get on it. People are already making money of of this Hobby and good for them. So if Joe Blow wants to make a little money back off seeds he's grown so be it, as others are making money off this hobby in many other way's

1/25/2011 10:31:49 AM

Frankfort Oh

very well said -Frank-dido from me

1/27/2011 8:15:34 AM

Muddy Waters

Amen Brother whats good for the Goose is Good for the Gander

1/27/2011 2:00:51 PM

Linden, Mi.,

robert Michigan, up north, get ahold of me, I'll get you seeds -- FREE -- contact me @

DBfireworks@charter.net

2/10/2011 6:36:24 PM

Linden, Mi.,

the cooks (Tina & Frank),read your post dated 1/20/11.

"THANK YOU"

I do wish more people felt that way

HOBBY---------------

2/10/2011 6:40:59 PM